Because I don’t think Markstrom will be a top 10 goalie or worth 6 million dollars at ages 35 or 36. Because VERY VERY few goalies are.

Freddy signed a contract the next day and Toronto knew exactly how long they’d have him for.

Keep him then. Call me in 2 years when Markstrom is a washed up 36 year old still making 6 million dollars and flames fans are thinking back to how they should have traded him at his peak.

Lmao he's clearly playing like an elite goalie this year. Most players have gradual fall offs as they age and Markstrom is clearly not showing any yet. Your logic o. Him being bad next year is based purely on how average age and nothing else. But like anything there is a standard deviation. Pavelski should have fallen off years ago, where on the other end of the spectrum you have guys like Subban who would normally still be in the league at his age.

Goalies fall off abruptly. There’s no position in the NHL where previous production and future production are less correlated than goalies. (It’s why goalies get such low returns historically).

Henrik Lundqvist was elite every year for a decade then hit 34 years old and became mediocre out of nowhere.

You should know how volatile goalies are with Markstrom himself who’s been bad in 2 of his 4 years in calgary

Markstroms historical production, age, workload, going to a new situation if we trade for him. Recipe for disaster on a massive contract.

Goalies also translate unpredictably to new situations.

NMC makes Markstrom harder to move

Mercer was requested by Nashville…Holtz by Calgary.

Being Lindy’s whipping boy has hurt Holtz value, but he is better than that. His pts/60 numbers are great…he just doesn’t get enough playing time. But still, when has a top young winger been acquired for a goalie?

Goalie trades are more common in off-season, at end of RFA, in exchange for other goalies. An in-season, goalie with term, in exchange for young goal-scoring prospect. We are in uncharted territory…but it’s hard for me to think the return is Holtz+anything unless Hanifin is included.

Especially a 34 year old goalie.

Ullmark for a first, helps them with cap to sign Hanifin
Petey from Pitt for Bahl , etc etc
Land a couple big bodies we've been throwing around
Done

Out: Toffoli, Bahl, 1st, 3rd
In: Pettersson, Ullmark, Trenin (maybe a Duhaime as well)

Would be something I’d be very happy with

Considering Mercer was Calgary's #1 2020 draft target I simply don't believe that. I have no idea where you got this info that Calgary specifically wanted Holtz instead of Mercer. More likely that since a deal was supposedly close, they settled for a deal with Holtz.

From my POV goalie trades are already far to scarce and specifically looking for a top young winger being acquired for a goalie is even less common. Due to the nature of the position goalie trades generally have goalies going back in the deal or are just purely for picks. Rental Miller in 2014 is probably one of the more accurate examples. It was just to rent him but he still returned a 1st, 3rd, Halak, and a recent 2nd in Carrier.

Personally I highly doubt a trade happens but I can't imagine Conroy would want Holtz over the Devils 1st, hence why I think the offer probably included both.

Ryan Miller trade was bizarre at the time…STL didn’t need him at time, but wanted roster jolt. They also moved out some salary in that deal that Buffalo had harder time moving than expected. (It’s a little like using Hampus Lindholm trade comp for Hanifin…and then asking other team to pay for retention on top of that price…)

Holtz has been attached to this trade for a while…Friedman, LeBrun, Seravalli, Pagnotta etc.

Where have you seen Mercer connected to this trade? His name comes up a lot here in various trades. But each time, it’s not a non-starter. He has already been taken off table in Saros talks (like he was in Meier talks early). I imagine the same applies here. And it was Holtz inclusion that prompted the request for Markstrom to waive.

Here is one of the more recent notes…

“The New Jersey Devils are expected to circle back with the Calgary Flames and jump back into those Jacob Markstrom discussions. Terms of a trade were initially agreed upon by both General Managers, I’m told, but something broke down at the last minute – I suspect Flames ownership was not interested in paying part of Markstrom’s contract to have him play elsewhere.

Separate sources confirmed the Devils would send forward Alexander Holtz back in a trade with between $2 million and $3 million of Markstrom’s of annual cap hit retained. Markstrom is being paid $8 million in actual salary this season, and $6 million in each of the next two seasons, which includes a $2.5 million lump sum bonus payment each year. In order to make this move work, the two teams are going to have to figure out how to even out the dollars in some fashion.

According to another source, Devils netminder Vitek Vanecek was not going back to Calgary in the initial trade. The Flames plan on moving forward with Dustin Wolf and Dan Vladar between the pipes if Markstrom is moved.

With the expectation that the Devils and Flames revisit talks and try to make things work ahead of the deadline, Fitzgerald has been evaluating other options.“

And where has someone said Holtz+1st? I have tried to read all that I can on this topic….even have read some of the forums you suggested.

But have never seen this specific detail

I’m sure every team in the league wants Mercer. They aren’t gonna get him.

NJD is happy to sub in a 1st for holtz.

1st for Markstrom with some small retention. Sold

I am not denying Holtz involvement at all. I am saying with confidence that Calgary absolutely asked for Mercer as 1) he was their 2020 draft target but NJ drafted him at 18 right before Calgary, and 2) he has the ability to play center which is a very coveted position for the Flames. I don't know if you remember watching the 2020 draft but it was the one done over video due to covid restrictions and after Jersey selected Mercer at 18, the Calgary pick was delayed and nearly a minute after their time "ran out" Bettman announced that they traded down. It was widely speculated that is because their #1 target still on the board was Mercer and then they viewed Zary and Lapierre as roughly even. So they traded down to grap whoever was still available of the 2. Turns out both were still available at 22 so they did it again. (Don't get me wrong I am very happy with Zary now but at the time I was worried about his foot speed being an issue).

Anyways Calgary almost certainly asked for Mercer and like with Nashville were promptly denied. So they likely settled with Holtz as the main piece coming back. However as I've said in ad nauseum, wingers are the last thing Calgary needs. So from my POV there is no chance at all they would consider doing Markstrom for Holtz straight up, especially when they have a similar potential prospect in Coronato. The quotes you posted don't suggest Holtz was the only piece involved either, just that he was involved. I personally doubt a trade happens here at all

Stop responding to me with comments that match the IQ of the show your PFP is from. I already ignore most of your stupid posts but will be blocking you completely on the next one

You're welcome to gloat if Markstrom and Hanifin return the massive hauls you claim (and not a return where you have to convince yourself a cap dump is a major positive asset to overrate it like Kuzmenko).

Be prepared to eat crow if/when they don't

Are you confusing me with someone else? I've literally said like 5 times in this thread alone I highly doubt Markstrom is traded. I haven't talked about Hanifin at all in this thread, I havent talked about Hanifin with you in weeks, maybe months. As for Kuzmenko, it doesn't take a genius to figure out that he can be flipped for positive value within the next year. Nobody is denying that Vancouver wanted to move on from him but he is absolutely a top 6 caliber player

I remember that trade at 2020 draft and NYR moved up to #19 thinking they were jumping ahead of us at #20, to take Schneider. They actually filmed their war room during the trade and posted it online, as if they were spiking the ball on NJD. But NJD got the guy we wanted at #18 and the guy we wanted (or at least Fitzy wanted) at #20 (and it came out later that if NYR had taken Mukhamadullin at #19, we would have likely taken Barron over Schneider).

(No one will ever accuse NYR of acting rationally when it comes to NJD).

Conroy asking for Mercer, then getting Holtz, is plausible. But still does seem to have been part of the earlier discussions…not the round of discussions over last few weeks, where they reach agreement on players, got Markstrom to waive, then hit snag on retention.

The deal, confirmed my multiple sources, was:

— NJD sends: Holtz
— CGY sends: Markstrom ($2-3m retained)

My guess is that Fitzy agreed to Holtz straight-up for Markstrom as part of a larger deal that included Hanifin. When Conroy split the trades, Fitzy asked for retention on Markstrom. That was also when Vanecek was removed from the package. Conroy, according to Eric Francis, did agree to some retention (saw 15% somewhere). Fitzy pushed for a higher figure (33% to 50% per Pagnotta) and it sounded like they could some common mid-point.

But no deal yet as Fitzy wants Hanifin/Markstrom package. Conroy wants to give BOS, FLA, TBL a chance to outbid NJD’s offer for Hanifin first. If they cannot, both players go to New Jersey. If one of them can, they will get Hanifin and Markstrom alone goes to NJD.

If I had to handicap
- 60% chance no one from CGY goes to NJD
- 12% chance Markstrom goes to NJD
- 10% chance Markstrom/Hanifin go to NJD
- 10% chance Hanifin goes to NJD
- 3% chance Markstrom/Tanev go to NJD
- 2% chance Tanev goes to NJD
- 2% chance Markstrom, Tanev, Hanifin go to NJD
- 1% chance other CGY pieces go to NJD