When you say you don’t believe lohrei and a 1st is a fair deal for hanifin I sure hope you mean that Boston has to add more, especially if they’re sending the cap dump that is grzelyck as well.

You are overvaluing Lohrei. Yes he is a big defenseman but he's pretty much the defense version of Ruzicka. Great size but never uses it, all the tools but missing a toolbox to put them together. Who are you listing as the 4 prospects Calgary would have in front of him? Pelletier, Coronato, Poirier, Wolf, and Brzustewicz would all definitely be above him. Morin would probably be above him but you sent him to Boston in this deal. Honzek likely would be too if he could stay healthy. The only certainly true part is that he is more NHL ready than any of the Flames other defense prospects

A cap dump is a multi year contract you can’t dump without adding a pick. Unless you aren’t willing to take multiple bids and minimize the trade partners, a one year contract tied to a useful player is probably better than other options

I’m pretty comfortable you won’t be getting a first rounder and a prospect the caliber of Lohrei,

I have him rated behind Coronato, Honzcek, Wolf, and Pelletier.

Hunter needs to make the next step to the AHL before I view his skill set translating to the level you are rating him. I think he’s a young Kevin Shattenkirk where I’ve seen woefully optimistic comparisons to Adam Fox. I’ve watched a lot of Kitchener (have family in Waterloo and paid attention to him because I thought he was going to Michigan). I realize he’s the flavor of the moment and he’s stepped up statistically like you want a second or third round pick to do, but most young players given that degree of freedom struggle to play in a team concept in the AHL level.

The star player from Kitchener last year was a considerably better player in Pinelli and he’s struggling with the adjustment to the AHL. I expect Hunter to struggle with the adjustment and then emerge after his first year. There are parts of his game where he gets breakaways where real professionals will create scoring chances the other way.

I’m not including Poirier. Just not a fan of his overall game. His playing style is Ian Mitchell like. I didn’t ask for him for a reason. Bails on defense to get offensive play. I thought Calgary was one of the better teams in the league last year and he ended up at just a plus 4 ranking 7th in the team among defenseman. He frustrates me watching him and it’s kind of comical that you are ripping Lohrei’s defense and selling him as a better prospect. Poirier is actually the type on prospect where I believe there are a ton of fringe NHL guys I’d rather give a shot to than him including Alex Regula, a journeyman AHL’r for Providence who was also a former 3rd round pick. He plays the game the right way. Another Michigan kid.

I think you have woefully underrated Lohrei and his talent level. His play in the AHL has shown a lot of promise and frankly, he projects fairly easily as a top 4 D man.

I don't know why Calgary is adding Morin. The first next year, that you value more than this year but is in fact just an extra year from making an impact on the Flames. The value of the picks is about the same wether it's this year or next, both are going to be late, just have to wait longer for next year's.
Lohrei and a first is decent value, adding in the other prospect basically makes up for the first being next year.

Look I am not saying Lohrei won't be an NHLer. At this point his floor is high enough that he will probably play in the NHL pretty consistently. Whether that translates into a legitimate top 4 or not is up in the air. He has a lot of work to do defensively and for someone of his size he should have a lot more weight on him. Like I said, Floor wise Lohrei has the advantage, but that simply comes with development. Ceiling wise I definitely give the edge to Brutz, Morin, and Poirier.

You are right that Pelts is not going to be a star but he will end up as a very solid middle 6 2-way player. He is a guy with a very strong work ethic and plays a very feisty style of hockey. Some likely good comparisons for him is Brandon Gallagher, Kyle Palmieri, and Zach Hyman.

I lived in Kitchener for the last year and a half (moved recently though), you don't need to tell me about Brzustewicz. Personally I think he's taken a big step up from last year. I was hoping Calgary would draft him or Dragicevic at the draft last year but I was fine with Morin too.

As for Poirier, his defensive game absolutely was and maybe still is the thing that will hold him back from ever making the NHL some day. However he has worked on it quite a lot and it's leaps and bounds better than his Sea Dogs days. For reference here is what Scott Wheeler had to say on him from his recent prospect pool rankings.

I edited my post. We have very different perspectives on Poirier. I literally hate the way he plays the game and would choose about two dozen AHL prospects over him.

I actually view Lohrei’s ceiling as higher than Hunter. I probably put a precedence on size and skating ability. I also think your commentary on his defensive skill set is interesting because the weaknesses you are flagging are pretty much what I see when I watch Hunter.

Last years draft had a significant drop off in the defenseman. Hunter should have been a mid to late second round pick. Very good pull in the Lindholm deal, which ended up being appropriately valued when you consider the multi year salary dump and the likely late pick in a weak draft

The draft is weaker past 20 than the 2025 draft and picks can be balanced. I can easily see a team prioritize an immediate pick, but I wouldn’t view it as a positive or negative. Getting a pick later in a weak draft instead of taking a flyer in 2025 when you already have two firsts isn’t exactly a catastrophic negative

Lohrei is better than any defender you will pick between 20 and 29 in this draft. You aren’t getting a first and him. Period.

Jelvik is averaging a PPG for a very good Boston college team and has tuned himself into a solid center prospect.

We can agree to disagree on Poirier but I think he has Chabot potential.

I also never said Hunter doesn't also need to improve his defensive game too. However his offensive potential is much higher than Lohrei's from my POV. Lohrei is much further along in his development, so I think his defensive ability should be a lot further along than it currently is. Personally I don't think he has the offensive ability to be a powerplay guy, nor the defensive ability to be a shutdown guy. Obviously that can always change but that's just my view.

As for Lindholm return, I was very happy with it as Brzustewicz is a very high potential prospect in my books, he did fall in the draft I agree with that. A late 1st is a late 1st though, the odds of that pick being a relevant NHLer are pretty much identical every year. Whether the draft is weak or not really doesn't matter, so a ~25th OA pick in 2024 vs 2025 is virtually the same. A drafts strength is generally measured by the talent at the top of the draft as well as the amount of players in each "tier" of a draft class. With last years draft what was significant was the amount of players that could have been late 1sts but ended up going in the mid 2nd simply due to the depth of the draft(ie Andrew Crystall at #40). The 2025 draft is only going to have a better top ~15 than 2024, after that it's just as much of a gamble as most other years.

So basically you are saying Lohrei is worth a ton and that's why Calgary adds Morin? I think you might be higher on Lohrei than many, which happens with teams own prospects. Not saying he is bad, just saying there are likely a dozen other similar, if not better, prospects like him. To think Hanifin doesn't pull a player like him and a 1st would be kind of silly.

Hanifin is going to pull a first and a second with retention from a contender.

Lohrei is worth a lot more than a late second.

Still believe the most likely scenario is Hanifin signs in Boston after July 1st.

I think that's debatable but we will leave it at that.

We have a few days before he’s traded. Curious to see what Hanifin secures and whether he signs an extension. I’m usually more critical of my teams prospects than most and generally feel late first round picks are the most overrated asset that teams pursue.

I like Lohrei, Lysell, and Poitras. The rest would be fringe prospects even if they acquired Morin whose defense leaves a lot to be desired, but I like his offensive tools

I’m just flagging that market value is market value and most Calgary based fan deals are not super realistic

Now that’s just simply not true. A cap dump is any contract a team has to move to be able to add another player plus the fact that grzelyck is a # 6 dman making 3.6 mil absolutely makes him a cap dump. I’m not a flames fan so I don’t really care either way if they win or lose a hanifin trade but assuming lohrei and a 1st is an overpayment is simply hilarious. It’s not even enough to get a deal done yet you think Calgary should sent more value back your way

A cap dump is a player you can’t get rid of. I’m pretty comfortable multiple teams would take Grz as depth, you won’t get much, but it would be like a Beauvalier deal. They’d probably need to make it a three team trade. Calgary is still trying to balance competing and I could see Grz staying with a multi year offer

I don’t see many trades where a prospect of Lohrei’s capabilities included with a first round pick for a pending FA outside of fantasy land deals or deals that include multi year cap dumps

You seem to think Lohrei is the best d man prospect in the entire league or something. Sure he’s good but he’s already 23 most guys aren’t considered prospects anymore around that age. Seems like we’re gonna have to agree to disagree on the value in a hanifin trade

Nope. Not at all. I don’t believe Hanifin at his expected salary would get the best D prospect in the league right now (Nemec?). Name the last pending FA defenseman who warranted a high enough pick to secure a top D prospect. Lohrei is a solid top 4 prospect.

I just don’t believe Lohrei would rank fourth on your D prospect list and think the notion that he has similar value to a late second round pick with his current developmental cycle is borderline ignorant and not worth discussing unless a trade actually happens.

A few years ago Tampa gave up a 1st and a 3rd for David Savard. Last year boston gave up a 1st a 2nd and a 3rd for Orlov and Hathaway. Hanifin is much better than either of Savard or Orlov… Lohrei isn’t a top D prospect, he’s Boston's top D prospect because they have one of the worst prospect pools in the league right now, there’s a big difference. Lohrei is the kind of guy you add to a deal to push it past the finish line not someone that’s a main piece in a deal if you want a legit top 4 D like Hanifin.

Oh great. Pat yourself on the back for having more first round picks and I’ll do the same for actually competing for the best record in the league rather than the Corey Pronman memorial means jack award.

The open issue I have with Calgary fans is they are pretending that Hanifin isn’t in a walk year less than 5 months away from unrestricted free agency and most players test the market. You aren’t offering Hanifin with multiple years on his contract. Nor are you offering him with a good, tough wing

Lindholm is a fine comparable minus the John Moore salary dump that enabled the signing of Bergeron and the incremental salary over the minimum used to sign Krejci last year. They paid a second for that. So basically it was a first, a second, and a fringe prospect for a player with retention.

Hanifin is worth a first and a second with retention in his walk year. If you value Lohrei as a second round pick, take the second rounder instead. It’s a pretty easy discussion. I’ll throw in a Farinacci, Jelvik, Harrison, Merkulov type to pacify the year wait to a better draft with some injury downside to add to a potential higher pick,

Otherwise, I’ll take my chances that with cap space … Boston can secure a great player in free agency (with Hanifin being a pretty high likelihood) and be in a position next year to trade for the next pending free agent with the picks they kept.

Clearly you don’t read very well because I’ve already said I’m not a flames fan. You asked for examples of rental D being acquired at the deadline and I gave them to you. The only way Boston would be able to get Hanifin for only a 1st and Lohrei is if he publically says he only wants to go to Boston. Otherwise every single team in the league beats that offer.

The last time a player said he’d only go to one place, Boston secured a recent Hart Trophy Winner in Hall and Lazar for a second round pick.

You have me comparables and I think you trying to counter that Hanifin by himself is worth more than a first and a second. Didn’t see that from the comparables you flagged at all.

It’s already being reported that he doesn’t want to go to Canadian teams and wants to be closer to home, which limits the markets of interest.

Several of these teams aren’t in a cap position long term to sign him, several have prominent free agents coming up.

New Jersey
New York x 2
Boston
Florida
Detroit
Dallas
Tampa
Carolina

Those are the competitive teams. Signing him as a free agent is the preferred scenario. Always has been. I curious if Sweeney even makes an offer