Your 100% not get a first for Burt LOL and youd be paying more than just a 5th for a 2nd retain.

Based on the fact he got a 1st+ last year what is your evidence for why he's suddenly worth less at half the cap hit.

Another delusional Leafs fan

What about this is delusional?

The Flyers aren't trading Frost, if they do it will have to be a massive overpay. That return wouldn't be enough for Frost by himself. And they want a 1st for Walker. Lily is a nice player but he isn't worth a 1st. Abruzzese is a career AHL player. You are majorly over rating Leafs players and not realizing that Philly won't deal players unless they get what they want.

Also I'm not sure a single person on this platform will agree with you that Bertuzzi is worth a 1st. He just isnt.

Saying Bert isn't worth a 1st is just irrational. All evidence says he is. He had 4 goals and 14 points when he was traded at the deadline last year for a 1st and 4th. There were way more options last year as well than this year.

Lili is worth more than Frost. Lili has been playing 1st/2nd line throughout this season for Toronto. Frost has been in and out of the lineup.

Nobody has said Walker is getting a 1st. Everyone says he's getting a 3rd or 2nd at most.

1st - Bert wasnt worth what you paid for him then, and is worth less now
2nd - if lili is worth more than frost, keep him. we're good without him, PHI needs center depth
3rd - Walker will be traded to a team with a 2nd more than likely. so lets mock up some trades that dont involve the leafs 2043 2nd rounder

Philly certainly wouldn't trade Morgan Frost alone for that package and might not trade Walker alone for it if you took the third out, so thinking that the Flyers would trade both for it is . . . optimistic.

The way this site undervalues Lili is so absurd. We've been through this charade before with Sandin.

Every Leafs fan said he's a 1st+ everyone else said he's a 3rd. Guess who was right?.

Like it's kinda pathetic not to value a player just because of the logo on the front of his jersey.

God are you insufferable. You post the same crap over and over again. You receive the same feedback over and over again that you reject. If you're not interested in feedback, then don't bother sharing your ideas. You won't be missed.

Bert only had 14 points by last year's deadline because he only played in like 28 games. The Wings got a 1st last year because he was coming off a 60 pt season. It also doesn't help his value if a team in playoff contention and looking to buy wants to trade him.

For Lily, he has had to play up in the lineup because of injuries. He is a 4/5 at best, has yet to play close to a full NHL season and is due a new contract. People need to stop bring up Frost being benched. That was because he held out and it was only very early in the season. He had a heart to heart with Torts and has been on fire since. His ceiling is a 2nd line center and that is much more valuable that a #4 defenseman.

In regards to Walker, just about every analyst or article has mentioned that Philly wants a 1st for Walker. Jeff Marek just had this in a recent article. He did mention that they would consider a high 2nd and a prospect.

Agree that his value could be impacted by WHO is selling. Saying he's worse this year than last year is just wrong tho. You have to consider that he isn't playing on the PP this year.

Last year when he was traded, at 5v5 he had 8 points in 29 games (.27 points per game). This year at 5v5 he has 18 points in 52 games (.35 points per game).

He's also playing less than last year 16:30 per game vs 15:43. And he isn't getting the offensive zone starts. His most common start now is in the neutral zone (19% of his shifts), last year it was the Offensive zone where he started 18% of shifts down to 15% this year. His penalty differential, expected goals, expected goals against are all better this year than last year (even including his time in Boston).

We could debate it forever but the numbers for Bert back him being worth at least as much as last year if not more. I think GMs trade for him because of his combination is skill/grit moreso than just his pure numbers. Toronto definitely isn't putting him in a position to succeed. His best work comes in front of the net on the PP and Tavares has that spot and is arguably the best in the league there.

For Lili, the numbers just don't back the hate for him. Every analytics model has him as a dominant two-way D. He plays slightly sheltered minutes (against middle 6 opponents) but he wins those minutes consistently. I think he also gets hate cause people think he's fully developed. He's 24 like the same age as Noah Cates' rookie season. Most D don't peak until 26-29. He's still got the potential to become a #2, look at Hanifin, Andersson even for Phili someone like Sanheim and how much they were bashed when they were 22-26 I'd argue all of them are top 2D now. This doesn't even factor in that he lost over a year of playing to mono so his development is likely a bit behind the rest of his draft class most of whom are just breaking into the league.

Anyways my point is that I get where you are coming from I just disagree with some of the valuation. I think you might be right on my undervaluing Frost/Walker as well tho. And I do believe Frost can be a top 6 guy, from an outsiders perspective it seems the flyers undervalue him but that could be a faulty perspective.

We can agree to disagree on Bertuzzi, one final thought though. If Brad trades bert isn't he then admitting one of his biggest signings was a mistake? That doesn't seem like something a GM would do.

In regards to Lily, I agree I think he has value. But yet again, every Leafs fan is trying to trade him in deals so doesn't that show that even the Toronto fan base doesn't have faith in him. I think he ends up being a good 2nd pairing guy, but for Philly he isn't better than Sanheim, York and Drysdale so he at best is our #4. For a team with such a dire need on defense trading Lily to me shows that he isn't valued. Just my opinion.

Finally, I highly doubt Philly moves Frost at all. He has been too valuable. Maybe in the offseason in a "hockey" trade.

Take the 3rd out of the deal and NSH would likely accept that. NSH would be hoping to get a 2nd for Carrier and a 3rd for Trenin. A late 1st for both of them I think would be reasonable.

I'd argue all of Tre's big signings were a fail.

Domi, Bert, Kampf, Klingberg, Reaves.

Bert even through we disagree on value we can likely agree he does his best work in front of the next on the PP which was a role he was never going to get in Toronto.

Domi same is a PP specialist who isn't on the PP.

Kampf is a high end 4th line defensive C. $2.4M is way too much for that.

Klingberg and Reaves I don't need to explain lol.

Bertuzzi is a waste of a roster spot oil pass