but it's the same if he's stopping a shot from being taken.

no, not even close.

Shots Suppression : prevents the opportunity for a shot to be taken or another opportunity to arise from shot being taken

Shot Blocked : results when failure of shot suppression occurs. leads to more opportunities to arise when a shot block happens.

ok, but if he blocks the shot, the goalie doesn't need to see where it's going.

this makes zero sense

So let me just clear the field for a second.

RAIF, you are saying that leadership, blocked shots compensate, the 6th worst WAR defensemen out of those who qualify, terrible CORSI and Fenwick, a 10 on the HERO Chart

how does it not make sense?

how does it? you're saying that the goalie doesn't need to pay attention, because the shot will get inevitably blocked

The case could be made that the goalie needs to see the puck even more. A shot block can easily go anywhere. The puck could deflect out of the zone, the puck could deflect to the boards, the puck could deflect to the slot where a guy like Ovechkin or Crosby is waiting by themselves. A shot block should be a last gasp desperation attempt to keep shots from getting to the goalie, NOT a primary measure. Shot suppression prevents chances from happening entirely, while shot blocking is taking your chances and hoping you get lucky. Praying for luck is a oft-failed method of trying to win, hence why many teams don't play that style anymore.

In fact, lets dissect a play just from this most recent playoffs involving Dan Girardi and shot blocking.


From Game 5 of the second round. Kyle Turris takes the puck at the blueline from #14 Alex Burrows. Girardi is the defender in this scenario as you can see. At the five second mark of the video, Girardi goes down and blocks turris's shot. However, Turris easily picks up the rebound off Girardi, who is now out of the play and stranded. Turris skates right around Girardi and fires a shot five hole on Lundqvist who reacted to the initial shot attempt, but as a result of Girardi's shot block changing the angle of the shot, Lundqvist could not get back into position in time since the play happened very quickly.

Do you now see why shot blocking isn't a reliable way to suppress shots??

From the 2010 ECF, Matt Carl (#25) has a stick lift that leads to #28 Claude Giroux to send the puck into the middle of the ice. Flyers captain Mike Richards (#18) gets the puck and ends up scoring a goal.

Because of the shot suppression by Matt Carl (21 seconds in), the Flyers scored a goal

RAIF, do you see the difference?

b-b-b-b-ump

fair enough, but these are each just one play.

its not the play that is what we are citing. its the theory that when you block a shot, more variables happen, while when you suppress a shot, the variables are lower. do you understand what we are getting at?

ok, i guess that's fair.

So you now understand that Giradri isn't a top-4 defensemen?

i understand why you don't think so but i think he is.

why do you think so?

i have told you many times.

and yet, we have explained elaborately why that isn't a good reason do value a player, yet, you still do so?

yeah, and i'm allowed to disagree with you.

Yeah you can disagree with everyone else, if you want and continue to evaluate players with bias.

WAR model???? Block