I don't see either trade happening. Ronnie Francis isn't giving up on Shane Wright this early and certainly not for rental Willie. Why is Carolina retaining on Pesce? LOL

He's already playing on one of the best bargain contracts in the NHL.

It's not far away from Pesce, but it's a little light. Robertson has almost no value due to his injuries. Lilly + 1st is a good starting point though. If you need the retention like you do here, it's going to cost a lot more though, so you may need to find a way to shift 2 million more before trying to make a deal like this.

Retention can be moved to a 3rd team. Leafs would need it to make the deals work. Robertson + to a 3rd team for 1 year retention.

This trade doesn't make any sense for the Leafs. Pesce is a good player, but that doesn't make him a good trade candidate. Firstly, I think you're underestimating how inefficient that next Pesce contract is going to be. You might like the player he is now, but his underlying numbers suggest he has regressed a little bit over the past 3 seasons. He's still a very good top-4 defender, but are you really willing to extend a player at a massive number into his 36/37 year old season? And that's not even considering all the assets you are giving up for him.

Timothy Liljegren on the other hand is entering the prime of his career and will surely be a solid two-way top-4 defenceman for years to come. On top of that, his next contract will be SIGNIFICANTLY more affordable than Pesce's and it will likely be for his best seasons rather than Pesce's worst.

Brutally bad for Seattle, trading for one year of Nylander.
Brutally bad for the Leafs trading for one year of Pesce.
And please no silly extension talk.

Pesce is the exact player the leafs need now and moving forward. A top 4 defensive d who can play 20+ minutes a night. He plays with Skjei currently who’s an offense first player and they have some of the best numbers in the league. Playing him with Reilly would create an elite top pairing.

If he gets a similar contract to Severson 8 yr 6.25mil. I would be more than happy. The last few years of that deal may not be great but if they lock up a top 2 Dman at the price with the cap going up that’s a great contract.

Liljegren’s numbers look good but that is playing sheltered minutes on the bottom pairing. I agree his contract will be more affordable. But he hasn’t proven yet that he can be a top 4 night in and night out.

Why would you not start talking about extensions with those players. Most deals like these (unless they are at the TDL) are to keep the players long term. Obviously neither team would mortgage the futures for rental deals.

Seattle could easily afford to give nylander an 8yr 9-10 mil a year deal and he would instantly be their best offensive player. They have roughly 30 mil in cap space next year.

Leafs could easily sign pesce to a Severson type deal 8yr 6.25 AAV. Wright could develop into the leafs 2nd line C and is cost controlled for the next few years.

[

Because basing a trade on extensions is nonsensical. Players have no obligation to sign. In this case two CONTENDING teams Leafs/Canes aren't going to allow their "stars" to negotiate with another team.
It just doesn't happen.

It literally happens every year lol.

2023- Dubois, Severson
2022- Tkachuk/huberdeau/weegar, Deangelo, Fiala
2021- Reinhart, Jones

Just to name a few…

Thanks for proving my point. lol. 2023. Dubois was a RFA, who was free to negotiate with any team. Severson was upcoming UFA, free to negotiate with any in three weeks
2022. Tkachuk was going to be a RFA in a week. Huberdeau and Weager were resigned after the trade. Not sure about SAD, but Fiala was a RFA
2021. Both Reinhart and Jones were not on Cup contending teams.

Canes and Leafs are Cup contenders. They are not going to allow their "star" players to negotiate with another team. And what happens when there is no agreement, now you have to welcome back a player and go on a Cup run with him. Gee, how does that affect the dressing room.

So please, name a few.

Tda was also an rfa that Philly signed after the trade

I’m not sure you understand how these things work. Usually the teams agree on the package of a trade but it’s not completed until a contract has been negotiated with the agent and the new team involved.

Sure, they have no obligation to sign but these things are discussed before the trade is made internally. So whether they are an RFA, UFA or in the last year of the deal these things happen all the time. That’s why some of the deals get killed or not explored because a player says they won’t sign a long term extension with that team.

Whether a team is contending or not has nothing to do with it. Winnipeg and LAK were both playoff teams last year. Dubois could have signed with another team as an RFA but Winnipeg also could have matched it. Same with any RFA you mentioned.

That’s why the teams work with the players to find a trade to a place they will extend (for example all of the players I listed above, who were traded and then signed extensions almost immediately).

Take the tkachuk deal for example. He listed a number of teams he would extend with. Then treliving negotiated with those teams to get the best package he could. He didn’t have a NTC or NMC but those negotiations still happened before the trade. The threat there was that he would only sign a one year deal and walk in free agency the following off-season once he was a UFA. Which is essentially the exact position carolina and Toronto are both looking at now with nylander and pesce a year away from UFA.

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/after-trade-to-panthers-matthew-tkachuk-signs-eight-year-76m-extension/sn-amp/

Add Alex Nedeljkovic, to Detroit.

Thanks for proving my point.....again. To say being a a contending team has nothing to do with it is downright false....and you must know that. CONTENDING teams trade for upcoming UFAs close to the TDL knowing full well they aren't going to be able to sign these players. There are about 100 upcoming UFAs in 24/25, they all don't get traded because they haven't been extended.
By your logic, the Leafs should be trading all their upcoming UFA....Matthews, Nylander, Lafferty, Brodie, Giordano.

Winnipeg and Calgary got something of value for one year of PLD and Tkachuk who definitely weren't resigning long term. But they weren't Cup contenders at all. Gee, the Flames who acquired two good NHLers for Tkachuk didn't even make the playoffs, and the Jets barely made the playoffs even with PLD.

I would like the hear the conversation the Leafs/Canes would have with top of their "stars". Hey, (important player on our team). "We want your ass outta town, So hurry up and negotiate with one team will give you, so we can trade you. But if you can 't come to an agreement, hey you are welcome back to our teams for a Cup run."

No idea how I’m proving your point. Your argument is all over the place. I am saying being a contending team doesn’t take you out of having trade discussions like this. Calgary and Winnipeg were both playoff teams (usually every year) when they made these franchise altering trades. By definition makes them a contending team.

These star players made it clear they weren’t resigning. Not saying that’s what nylander is doing but they are very far apart on AAV (almost 2 mil a year). So if talks go nowhere TO has 3 options, own rental and let him walk to free agency, trade at TDL for rental value or work with nylander and his reps to find a destination where he would sign long term and work a deal to maximize value.

Saying they are a contending team and would never do that is ridiculous. Take Florida for example, they were the presidents trophy winner in 2021-22. Got swept in the second round by Tampa. The GM recognized that the team wasn’t built the way he wanted to and went out and acquired Tkachuk (a “star player” for Huberdeau and weegar also “star players”) and had an extension in place when the trade was announced.

They barely made it into the playoffs and then dummied everyone until the finals.

Toronto and Carolina would have these discussions because if they know the players aren’t going to resign, in my opinion, they are better off exploring trades to maximize the value and balance out their teams.

End of rant.

Explorating trade options....yes. Allowing a player to negotiate with another team.......no. Huberdeau and Weager had not negotiated with the Flames before being traded.

End of facts.

But tkachuk did…. In the same deal…. Coming from a playoff team…..

Yes, Tkachuk did because he was allowed to (with a week) because he was RFA...... Seems like do not understand that an RFA is allowed to negotiate with any team. A player whose contract isn't expiring for a year....Nylander and Pesce are not allowed to negotiate with other teams.

I definitely understand UFA and RFA and the nuances of each. But you understand even if an RFA negotiates a deal with another team the team could still match it. So in this case, tkachuk would have signed a deal with Florida and Calgary could match and keep him for that contract. Making the fact that he was an RFA irrelevant in this argument.

Players under contract and their agents get permission from teams all the time to negotiate a long term deal with another team during trade talks. This just happened with Bo Horvat this season past season. Pending UFA traded and signed an extension before he even played a game for New York. Vancouver got back a roster player, a top prospect and a conditional 1st….

I thought you finished your rant. RFA Players can negotiate with other teams ...but not necessarily sign. So PLD came to contractual agreement but not signed, and then Jets and Kings worked out a non compensation deal. Not hard to understand but in no way is comparable to a Nylander and Pesce situation.
Nylander and Pesce are not going to be allowed to negotiate with other teams....they are under contract for a year on contending teams
Again you bring up the nonsensical Horvat deal as a comparison . Canucks were out of the playoff...they were not contenders on a Cup run. So they traded an upcoming UFA for futures....yes that happens all the time. Now it undoubtedly Horvat and Isles were given permission to work an extension, so the Isles paid a premium for that. Now that happens also.

This was my entire point. You’re saying that it couldn’t happen because they are contenders. Being a contender doesn’t factor into this if it makes the team better. My whole point was that UFA and RFA doesn’t matter these trades have happened in the past with rights being negotiated. Same with contenders and non-contenders. If it makes the team better I’m sure both teams would at least explore it.

Well, I'm still waiting for any history of a contending team trading an important member of their team, who is under contract for one full year, be allowed to negotiate a contract with other teams.
Doesn't happen. Bringing in the Horvat situation from last season and comparing to a Nylander situation.....meaningless.

By the way, that's brutal trade for Seattle, and even the Leafs probably don't like the Pesce trade either.