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Forums/Armchair-GM

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Créé par: swinny

Équipe: 2023-24 Canadiens de Montréal

Date de création initiale: 5 juin 2023

Publié: 5 juin 2023

Mode - plafond salarial: Basique

Description

We can debate if the Dubois move happens or not. But as I suggest, if Winnipeg is fielding offers, put in the offer. With Dubois, what I see as the 2nd line is a big ball of nasty to deal with. Harvey-Pinard looks like he could be a 60 point player that hits. We know what Dubois can do, and playing with a much better C, Anderson may see a 50-60 point season as well. Worst case scenario? They hit. A lot.

Looking over this roster, it was about moving contracts that will not be here long term - hence moving Hoffman for peanuts and Edmunson to move up in the draft.

Moving Armia is impossible, so playing him in an attempt to increase his value is the best approach. The same with Anderson and Gallagher. Isn't the time.......

Most will say Slavkovsky will supplant Pitlick, but I opted to leave in in Laval to get significant ice time and gain confidence and further acclimate to the North American game. Not the worst idea.......

Lots to love about the organizational depth here too. Outside if the goaltending..... that needs to be addressed.

Overall, the Habs will compete. And given how different the Atlantic division is going to look, should hang around the playoff picture until the end..... if they can stay healthy.

Where this team becomes a serious threat is 2024-25, when I see Slavkovsky, Heinemen, Ferrell, Kidney all pushing for spots. That is serious scoring depth that after another year of development hit the ground running.

Signatures de joueurs autonomes

RFA	ANS	CAP HIT
Harvey-Pinard, Rafaël	2	950 000 $
Ylönen, Jesse	2	950 000 $
Dubois, Pierre-Luc	8	8 500 000 $

Transactions

MTL

Dubois, Pierre-Luc [Droits de RFA]

Détails additionnels:

Word is Winnipeg is listening to offers on their expiring deals. Where they say a rebuild isn't the plan, I can't see many teams willing to move a comparable roster player for Dubois. It is simply a deal that sets up more as futures, where the Jets use the UFA market or other assets to fill in the hole.

But in Dubois, the Habs get a hard-nosed 1A/B centre they lack (Dvorak never was, and there is an argument Dach is better on the wing). And, if all the rumours of Dubois wanting Montréal are true, the Habs ability to sign him long term exists.

Sure, Hughes could wait for him to go UFA, but I suggest if he can, he should. The Atlantic is going to look a lot different next year, and this is the sort of move that may put the Habs squarely in the playoff mix. Further, the sheer depth of this organization (goaltending aside), landing Dubois not only solidifies the C for 6-8 years, but also gives Hughes time to assess the top 6, amd how the likes of Mesar, Kidney, Slafkovksy, Heinemen and Ferrell fit in.... as really, longer term, 2 of these guys are likely Dubois' linemates.

If the Habs make the move, I think this will be the construct in their end.

WPG

Beck, Owen
Ylönen, Jesse
Choix de 1e ronde en 2023 (FLA)

Détails additionnels:

What are the Jets getting?

A late first maybe an asset used to draft or used in a deal to fill in the Dubois hole (Jets have depth to pull that off)

Beck is a great looking prospect.... one I see rounding out to be a 2C. Fits in well in the sense with Lucius and Lambert there, the trio along with Perfetti form the next core in Winnipeg.

Ylönen I have always liked. Certainly has top 6 potential, but likely that guy that plays 3rd line and moves up the line up when needed. And with 3rd line scoring having been an issue with the Jets for a while........ simply a player that long term probably doesn't fit into the Habs plans either (citing their depth above)

Simply put, I really don't see Dubois being moved in a lateral move. It's going to be a futures deal, and this one is a decent return.

MTL

Choix de 4e ronde en 2023 (TBL)

Détails additionnels:

Very much a something is better than nothing scenario.

Retaining on Hoffman to garner an asset just makes more sense than the buyout. Hoffman can still play, is still a 40 point winger. That is not worth $4.5 million, but I would argue is worth $2.5 million.

I see the Preds as a fit (see my rationale), but for a 4th, could be a few teams looking for scoring depth on a short term.

NSH

Hoffman, Mike (2 000 000 $ retained)

Détails additionnels:

The Preds rebuild looks to be going just ducky, but can see Trotz wanting to add some scoring (which has plagued the Preds for a while). While Tomasino, Evangelista and Pärssinen should get all sorts of runway this year, Hoffman provides inexpensive and short term insurance on the trio. Yes, it's Hoffman, but still, he can be a 40 point guy. Worst case? Preds miss the playoffs, they retain 50% and very likely upgrade that pick.

MTL

Choix de 1e ronde en 2023 (BOS)

Détails additionnels:

Dealing with the Devil, the Habs move up about 40 positions in the draft. Improving draft position in a deep draft is something I think you do if the opportunuty presents itself. #30 from 69 for Edmunson isn't a bad return.

Some may not like the additional 4th on there, but the Habs have 4 of them, and the Vegas 4th will at worst be #124. Greasing the wheel to get an additional 1st.

TOR

Edmundson, Joel (1 750 000 $ retained)
Choix de 3e ronde en 2023 (MTL)
Choix de 4e ronde en 2023 (VGK)

Détails additionnels:

Leafs get a responsible tough stay-at home defender.

Moving the 1st is tough, but for a team with no draft capital, moving down in the draft to pick up an additional pick (albeit a very late 4th) should be entertained.

Rachats de contrats

Karl Alzner: 833 333 $

Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire

Mike Hoffman: 2 000 000 $ (44.44%)
Joel Edmundson: 1 750 000 $ (200%)

Repêchage	1e ronde	2e ronde	3e ronde	4e ronde	5e ronde	6e ronde	7e ronde
2023
2024
2025

FORMATION

VUE À LONG TERME

INTÉGRÉ

TEXTE INTÉGRÉ

TAILLE DE LA FORMATION	PLAFOND SALARIAL	CAP HIT	EXCÉDENTS	BONIS	ESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
21	83 500 000 $	73 836 666 $	1 170 000 $	695 000 $	9 663 334 $

Ailier gauche	Centre	Ailier droit
Caufield, Cole 7 850 000 $7 850 000 $ AG, AD UFA - 8	Suzuki, Nick 7 875 000 $7 875 000 $ C UFA - 7	Dach, Kirby 3 362 500 $3 362 500 $ C, AD RFA - 3
Harvey-Pinard, Rafaël 950 000 $950 000 $ AG, AD RFA - 2	Dubois, Pierre-Luc 8 500 000 $8 500 000 $ C UFA - 8	Anderson, Josh 5 500 000 $5 500 000 $ AD, AG M-NTC UFA - 4
Pitlick, Rem 1 100 000 $1 100 000 $ AG, AD UFA - 1	Dvorak, Christian 4 450 000 $4 450 000 $ C M-NTC UFA - 2	Gallagher, Brendan 6 500 000 $6 500 000 $ AD, AG M-NTC, NMC UFA - 4
Pezzetta, Michael 812 500 $812 500 $ AG, AD UFA - 2	Evans, Jake 1 700 000 $1 700 000 $ C UFA - 2	Armia, Joel 3 400 000 $3 400 000 $ AD, AG UFA - 2

Défenseur gaucher	Défenseur droitier	Gardien de but
Matheson, Michael 4 875 000 $4 875 000 $ DG M-NTC UFA - 3	Savard, David 3 500 000 $3 500 000 $ DD UFA - 2	Montembeault, Samuel 1 000 000 $1 000 000 $ G UFA - 1
Guhle, Kaiden 863 333 $863 333 $ (420 000 $$420K) DG/DD RFA - 2	Barron, Justin 925 000 $925 000 $ (275 000 $$275K) DD RFA - 1	Allen, Jake 1 925 000 $1 925 000 $ G M-NTC UFA - 2
Xhekaj, Arber 828 333 $828 333 $ DG/DD RFA - 1	Kovacevic, Johnathan 766 667 $766 667 $ DD UFA - 2
	Harris, Jordan 1 400 000 $1 400 000 $ DG/DD RFA - 2

Laissés de côté	Liste des blessés (IR)	Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
		Price, Carey 10 500 000 $10 500 000 $ G NMC UFA - 3

5 juin 2023 à 11 h 19

hudsonsux

Hudson

Rejoint: juill. 2022

Messages: 235

Mentions "j'aime": 60

Edmundsson ain’t worth a first and we don’t need no draft capital we wanna win now not in 2029

SammyPollock a aimé ceci.

5 juin 2023 à 11 h 26

swinny

Démarrer sujet

Rejoint: mars 2017

Messages: 4,812

Mentions "j'aime": 2,012

Quoting: hudsonsux

Edmundsson ain’t worth a first and we don’t need no draft capital we wanna win now not in 2029

Edmunson is a very good stay at home D, that given how Treliving constructs a blueline is a fit. Absolute fit.

He helps win now. Not sure how you think he doesn't.

Further, at $1.75 million will be significantly cheaper than hitting the UFA market, leaving additional money to land a nice gritty forward, or two.

Dude.... I am a Leafs fan and I would do this deal. Hell, I would do it wothout the 4th. So explain how Edmunson won't round out the Leafs blueline.

5 juin 2023 à 11 h 28

gmgb

Rejoint: juin 2017

Messages: 7,674

Mentions "j'aime": 5,257

The last time Hoffman hit 40 points was four seasons and three teams ago. No thanks from NSH.

hudsonsux a aimé ceci.

5 juin 2023 à 11 h 29

Leafsfan98

Leafs going to Leafs

Rejoint: déc. 2022

Messages: 10,090

Mentions "j'aime": 3,055

Leafs decline

hudsonsux a aimé ceci.

5 juin 2023 à 11 h 30

hudsonsux

Hudson

Rejoint: juill. 2022

Messages: 235

Mentions "j'aime": 60

Quoting: swinny

We’re stacked at D we had Gustafson sitting in the playoffs. If we trade that first for defence which is stupid, we should use it to get a top tier defenceman for our first line not a fringe top4 d. We should use that first to help our offence. That’s why we lost in the second round we couldn’t score on Bob. We should use it to get a stud left wing. And he’d be on our third line we. Reilly, McCabe, Brodie and Schenn all better than him, maybe even liljegren he’d be debatebaly our worst defence man we shouldn’t spend a first on him

5 juin 2023 à 11 h 32

swinny

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Quoting: gmgb

The last time Hoffman hit 40 points was four seasons and three teams ago. No thanks from NSH.

Actually.... if he stayed healthy in Montréal he was tracking to be a 41 point player over 82..... and that is for both years in Montréal.

Decent player, horrible contract on a bad team who is quite effective on the PP.

As a 3rd line option in Nashville for one year there is value for a 4th.

Trotz certainly has the option of going UFA, but I see the kids getting as much runway as possible to play. The pedigre is there. At the same time, I would be looking at insurance policies on the short term.

5 juin 2023 à 11 h 32

swinny

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Quoting: Leafsfan98

Leafs decline

And why?

5 juin 2023 à 11 h 40

swinny

Démarrer sujet

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Quoting: hudsonsux

The Leafs ARE NOT stacked at D.... at all.

Reilly is Reilly.
Brodie is Brodie.

Neither are physical.

McCabe is great. He hits.
Liligren is rounding out nicely.

Timmins adds an offensive element on the right side, but not physical. He could be the #6, he may not be. I say he is.

Giordano at this point is the #7 guy, who rotates in the lineup for workload management. Can still play, but certainly not 20 minutes a night. It showed in the playoffs. He was schooled.

That right now is the Leafs blueline.

Schenn: plays RD. So, he would be playing where?
Gustaffson is all offense and no defense.

In short: the Leafs really do need a 3rd pairing LD..... that can play.

We can go over the lack of offense in the FLA series, but Championships are won with defense. The Leafs need to be grittier there. They are not.

5 juin 2023 à 11 h 44

Leafsfan98

Leafs going to Leafs

Rejoint: déc. 2022

Messages: 10,090

Mentions "j'aime": 3,055

Quoting: swinny

And why?

Leafs don't need another Justin Holl at basically the same price (Holl at 1 is fine but at 2 is way to much)... And especially not for a 1st

5 juin 2023 à 11 h 48

#10

Savage27

sLIM

Rejoint: mai 2023

Messages: 660

Mentions "j'aime": 181

Quoting: hudsonsux

LOL having 2 legit top 4 guys 1 of which is old isn’t being stacked

swinny a aimé ceci.

5 juin 2023 à 13 h 16

#11

swinny

Démarrer sujet

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Quoting: Leafsfan98

Leafs don't need another Justin Holl at basically the same price (Holl at 1 is fine but at 2 is way to much)... And especially not for a 1st

The difference between Holl and Edmunson is Edmundson is more physical - an element sorely lacking on the Leafs back end. Further, yes there are better than Edmundson, but they will also cost more..... as what is available at LD on the UFA market is very thin in comparison to RD.

And not moving a 1st outright. It's a pick flip. The lack of UFA LD may dictate the price.....

I am not keen on moving the 1st, but how many 2nds do the Leafs have? Zero until what? 2026?

Gotta crack an egg to make an omlette.

5 juin 2023 à 13 h 29

#12

Leafsfan98

Leafs going to Leafs

Rejoint: déc. 2022

Messages: 10,090

Mentions "j'aime": 3,055

Quoting: swinny

Edmunson tries to hit but can't skate... The Leafs would get more value by actually using the 1st and hitting on it, or giving it up for multiple seconds to get multiple good players... Also, Leafs don't need another LHD with McCabe Brodie and Rielly all being better than Edmunson with the ability to get a RHD in FA

WDYM 'gotta crack an egg to make an omelette', the one place the Leafs don't need anything is centre and LD and guess what... Edmunson plays LD. I'd rather (if MTL wants the 1st) the first for 2 2nds and a 3rd (one second HAS to be in 2023, so your second but the other can be the Avs' second) where the Leafs can get 3 solid prospects

5 juin 2023 à 17 h 23

#13

SammyPollock

A rational Habs fan

Rejoint: juill. 2020

Messages: 36

Mentions "j'aime": 9

Quoting: swinny

Dude.... I am a Leafs fan and I would do this deal. Hell, I would do it wothout the 4th. So explain how Edmunson won't round out the Leafs blueline.

I am a Habs fan and I'm telling you that unless Edmundson can conclusively show he can still play, the only value he may have is on LTIR.

5 juin 2023 à 17 h 44

#14

swinny

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Quoting: SammyPollock

I am a Habs fan and I'm telling you that unless Edmundson can conclusively show he can still play, the only value he may have is on LTIR.

He has fallen outside the top 6 in Montréal with Guhle and Xjekaj's arrivals, but that is a bold assertion.

He was never a strong skater.

And if he is so terrible, tell me why St. Louis played him over 19 minutes a game last year when the Habs really had other options, especially after it was crystal clear this team was in lotto territory. 2nd on the blueline in hits. 2nd on blueline in blocked shots.

So has he been passed on the depth chart? Absolutely. Does he suck? No.

5 juin 2023 à 18 h 26

#15

SammyPollock

A rational Habs fan

Rejoint: juill. 2020

Messages: 36

Mentions "j'aime": 9

Quoting: swinny

Listen, I like Eddy a lot. But did you watch him last year? He was our worst defenceman. Like some other guys, he was playing hurt and it was a disservice to the team and to himself. I was shocked when he dropped the gloves in the final game. Gutsy? Sure. Smart? I don't know.

If Eddy comes back and plays like he has before last season, he's a very solid asset for any team--especially in the playoffs. And I'm fine with him playing ahead of anyone except Matheson and Guhle. But I don't see any GM acquiring him (save for LTIR purposes) until or unless he consistently shows he has gotten back to form.

But if Treliving and the Leafs want to take his last contract year off our hands, I would be very happy indeed. Especially if it returns to MTL anything resembling your proposed transaction.

5 juin 2023 à 19 h 5

#16

swinny

Démarrer sujet

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Quoting: SammyPollock

Well, in the proposed transaction, the Habs are eating 50% of that cap hit. Taking him on at full value isn't happening. That can be found in the UFA bin.

But, all the Leafs need him to do is play 15-16 minutes a night and play a safe game. Paired with Timmins (which I would project) is a perfect use of his game. It's not flashy, and economical. And with Giordano there he get rest days as well.

Before I invest in the left side as a Leafs fan, waiting for Brodie to come off the books.

6 juin 2023 à 15 h 1

#17

hudsonsux

Hudson

Rejoint: juill. 2022

Messages: 235

Mentions "j'aime": 60

Quoting: Savage27

LOL having 2 legit top 4 guys 1 of which is old isn’t being stacked

Ok by stacked I don’t mean super good top guys I meant a lot of depth guys. Edmundsson would just be another depth guy who we don’t need

6 juin 2023 à 15 h 3

#18

hudsonsux

Hudson

Rejoint: juill. 2022

Messages: 235

Mentions "j'aime": 60

Quoting: swinny

A first for a third pairing defence man is not at all worth it. If they need grit they can easily trade some later picks for grittier third pairs, instead of a very good third pair for a first. I’m not gonna say defence doesn’t win chips, but having a good third pairing defence man isn’t gonna get us a cup

6 juin 2023 à 15 h 24

#19

swinny

Démarrer sujet

Rejoint: mars 2017

Messages: 4,812

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Quoting: hudsonsux

It is a pick flip, not a 1st outright. Moving down 40 positions isn't a horrible move for the right fit.

And I maintain, the real need to the Leaf blueline is on LD. Brodie plays so little LD, he shouldn't qualify. Rarely played it as a Flame, rarely as a Leaf. Frankly, Brodie is a guy I move in order to bring in a grittier stay-at-home guy..... but since this is a Habs thread, Savard isn't it.

I am not sold Giordano is that guy to carry the 3rd pairing. Why if I were Treliving, doing this or something similar is in the cards, as the UFA market on the left side is thin. You will not find this via UFA. I don't see it. At least not for money I would rather not spend on the 3rd pairing or term.

6 juin 2023 à 15 h 30

#20

Savage27

sLIM

Rejoint: mai 2023

Messages: 660

Mentions "j'aime": 181

Quoting: hudsonsux

Ok by stacked I don’t mean super good top guys I meant a lot of depth guys. Edmundsson would just be another depth guy who we don’t need

Facts He’s worth a third but no more

hudsonsux a aimé ceci.

6 juin 2023 à 15 h 56

#21

swinny

Démarrer sujet

Rejoint: mars 2017

Messages: 4,812

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Quoting: Savage27

Facts He’s worth a third but no more

OK, so does not the pick flip and the additional 4th not make sense somehow?

6 juin 2023 à 16 h 21

#22

Savage27

sLIM

Rejoint: mai 2023

Messages: 660

Mentions "j'aime": 181

Quoting: swinny

OK, so does not the pick flip and the additional 4th not make sense somehow?

It makes no sense. Why give up a first in a deep draft for a guy who does not help you. The third and 4th coming back dont matter those arent premium picks. JE has been terrible and unable to stay healthy since 2021

6 juin 2023 à 16 h 27

#23

hudsonsux

Hudson

Rejoint: juill. 2022

Messages: 235

Mentions "j'aime": 60

Quoting: swinny

Ok but Leafs don’t need a pick flip they wanna win now not in 2029. They can use the first to get a better player not a mid third pair D and other picks. I agree with gio being number 7 but we got Reilly and McCabe on left, Brodie and Schenn at right, Liljegren at 3RD we just need a decent 3rd pair by signing one or trading like a 3rd for a decent one

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Forums/Armchair-GM

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Description

Signatures de joueurs autonomes

Transactions

MTL

WPG

MTL

NSH

MTL

TOR

Rachats de contrats

Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire

Code d'intégration

Texte intégré

Question:

Options: