I get it and Doug Wilson did a great job for a long time. One of the reasons San Jose is my 2nd favorite team is because of him, he put together some really good teams over the years and brought in really good players while always having like $6mill in cap space. I grew up watching Jumbo Joe n little Joe, PM, Nabokov, Nolan, Vlasic (in his prime he was a beast), Blake, Campbell, Burnes (I remember the trade like it happened yesterday and my initial thought was what a steal) same with the Toskla trade and getting Couture with our 1st amongst so many more reasons I fell in love with the sharks as a kid. I agree Grier is doing a good job and he seems like an out of the box thinker which this league needs more of. Personally, I liked the NJD deal and didn't get all the media hate, I thought Grier made out pretty good considering the situation. It's never going to seem like enough for a player Meier unless it's other top end players heading back like in the CGY-Panthers deal.

I realize I can be out to lunch on this but given the flat cap = not as big of a trade market as otherwise would be and the Oilers interest + needing to rid themselves of bad contracts + McDavid & Draisaitl in their primes and Holland under pressure to show them the FO is as serious about winning as they are. I think Grier may have to retain but would rather take on contracts because there's a greater chance they could be flipped for more down the road. It wouldn't just be Campbell but I think he'll be part of it. EDM needs to move more money so I'd think some combination of Yamamoto, Foegele, Ceci & Kulak could be involved for financial purposes, but obviously none of them would be a centerpiece and the sharks could add to make it a bigger deal but I'd think at least 2 1st's plus at least 1 top prospect/young roster player heading to Northern California. It all comes down to finding common ground between the two sides and making the $ work but I think some of the pieces I mentioned could/would be in play.

All that said I live in Southern Ontario so our coverage of the sharks isn't as extensive as yours so my thinking could be way off here.

And Forsberg was bad this year, but also Ottawa isn't good defensively. TO is but has hung Murray out to dry several times unfortunately. And he was hurt. But he proved he's good when he's healthy. Stay healthy is his risk

I know all too well what your saying and totally agree.

I'm still a frequent reader, just post very little.
The guys in the Leafs discussion have something good going, always interesting.

I been okay, you?

When we traded for Murray, it crushed me.
Didn't want him but I'll admit hes played well when healthy but I think at this point LTIRetire has to be real for him, next year.

Exactly, no point in trying to reason with the unreasonable.

I'll pop on when I can but same I'll read and b4 I go to respond I realize it's not worth wasting my time if said poster isn't willing to have a discussion.

Heck yeah they do and I overwhelmed @onex but was more just trying to catch up lol. Do you guys still like baseball and the blue jays? If so and you want some great content lemme know.

I've been alright just trying to balance life lol.

I was the opposite on Murray because I wanted the Leafs to get him years ago, but I'd be lying if I didn't say part of me was worried with all the injuies.

The only certainty I see at this point in time with the roster is Murray not being back, either he accepts a trade wherever (I'm thinking the Marazek deal as a comp of what this FO would pay to move him) or bought out and take the $2mill caphit next year. I'd project the cap to at least rise by $2mill next year so it would essentially be a flat cap for the leafs.

Will always be Jay's fan but I am just not believer in Shatkins [Atkins and Shapiaro]

Some interesting adds for this year but I remain unconvinced they are the real deal.

I know who shatkins is. Had me at “Will always be a Jay's fan" Happy to hear it!!!

I understand if you don't believe in them but what makes you not believe in them?

The hitting and defense is the real deal, the pitching outside of Gauseman is another story...

Pitching.

I agree this FO hasn't done the best job with pitching but every FO has their strengths and weaknesses. Kim Ng in Miami hasn't done a good job with position player but has the pitching. I put Shapiro in the same boat as Shanahan and Masai in that they've all came in and rebranded their teams. I put Shapiro & Masai ahead of shanny because they've both done what their predecessor's could not and that's spend real $ on the Jay's (we're over the luxury tax for the first time) and the raps whereas the leafs have always spent except for under Ballard. I put Atkins in the same boat as Dubas in that they've both adjusted their initial stance on roster construction to try and get ahead of the curve of the way the game is going or match the way other teams play to beat them. Obviously both are different sports and require a different approach to roster construction especially with the new rule changes in baseball and I think Atkins has done a good job at that. Atkins definitely isn't without his warts and I'm not a Shapiro and Atkins apologist by any means but I'd grade them both (Atkins & Dubas) in the A-,B+ range.

AA was great at drafting and developing pitching but wasn't great at position players until he finally changed his approach to roster construction and he's spoke about it multiple times publicly. I love AA too and am happy he's had success in L.A. & ATL but Rogers wasn't taking his calls while he was here and Shapiro has got this FO to spend when they weren't making money. Remember they just updated the complex in Dunedin and Buffalo while they were not only not playing in Canada but couldn't sell tickets. Beeston did a great job when he was our president but even he couldn't get ownership to buy into his vision the way Mark has.

If we end up in the wildcard and loose again or worse Atkins is gone. The whole point I'm trying to make is though they haven't done a great job with the pitching you can't deny they've done a great job on positional players and drafting and developing.