you can't be serious with this

I’m not sure Provorov is much better than Krug, definitely not two 1sts better.

I get the comparison to the Schenn trade but there's a couple key differences:

1. The player they got from Philly (Schenn) was performing decently well as a 50 point 2C before the Blues acquired him. Provorov might be better on a different team but he's been as bad as Krug this year, so they shouldn't pay a Schenn-esque price for him.
2. The Blues of 2017 were a team that had several good pieces and just needed to rebuild their center depth to be competitive. The Blues of 2023 are nowhere near close to being competitive with or without Provorov. By the time the Blues might be roughly back to contention level, assuming a lot breaks their way, Provorov's contract will be up.
3. Krug has way more term and is way more expensive than Lehtera ever was (not just in cap hit, but in real salary too).

The Blues need the picks now, and they don't need an expensive acquisition on defense now. They could stand to dump Krug and Provorov is an interesting reclamation project, if it was a basically even swap, but that doesn't make sense for Philly. If they have to pay to get rid of Krug, they're better off keeping him and selling one of the defenseman people actually want.

Hahahaha WHAT???

1. Provorov is not a reclamation project. He has spent ~30% of the season paired with a 22 year old, another ~30% with Tony DeAngelo. His career average ice time is 24 minutes. Pair him with Parayko. Let either side be an activation threat.

The Blues would have to pay a Schenn-esque price to dump Krug's term. If ya don't want to pay the price to pass the risk of 4 more years at over 6 million, including real cash out of 8 million and 8,5 million the next 2 seasons, then you keep him for 4 years.

2. Provorov is 26.

3. Exactly why you're paying one way or another, either on your roster or not.

If the Blues intend to keep Parayko they should equalize his pairing with a skater who compliments his strengths.

The Blues do not need picks right now, apart from normal team building. They are not rebuilding. They intend to be competitive next season, albeit likely to miss the playoffs. Their roster will change drastically over the next 2 years, however, at that stage they will have multiple new core pieces in place. Provorov would be 28. Not exactly old.

In this scenario, the Blues still have 7 picks in the first 3 rounds of the next 2 drafts, including 2 firsts.

Dude. You're off the pier. Way off. Remember this?

"Torey Krug is an excellent powerplay specialist. His powerplay points/60 is similar to prime Shattenkirk, who was league leading at that time in conversion metrics (except iirc a year Hedman took it).

Torey Krug has had an injury this season limiting his performance, but despite that he has more powerplay points than the entire left side of Philly's defense. "

In what world is Krug comparable to Lehtera? He's your PP savior last time I checked. For that matter, how is moving Krug comparable to acquiring Schenn? This is a fleece attempt, and everyone has called it out.

Oh... and Provy has not been worth two 1sts for three years. Dude has not played well for a long time, and his own team dislikes him, and I can't imagine the Blues wanting him at all. Your values here are all a mess.

I like moving Krug... and personally really like the fit of Provorov on this team but i think theres a better way to go about this and thats definitely steep for him. Buying out Scandella is worthwhile if you're looking to add this summer and could use the cap space. And retaining a bit on Krug is worth it imo to make his contract more palatable for another team. I dont think Philly is interested in Krug but their gm sure has made some blunders. Even so i dont think giving up 2 first to swap the two is worth it or the right approach rn for the Blues. If theres a swap i could tolerate one of the later 1st and some other pieces in a package (not Bolduc, Neighbours, Snuggie, Hofer, Perunovich)
Edit:thought about it a bit more. A late 1st + mid pick/prospect is more than fine for Provy imo. Im not sure im paying a 1st to dump
krug still though. Like i said id add other worth while pieces to a swap, but not an additional 1st or top prospect, no way jose.

Blues GM admitted they are rebuilding yesterday and not interested in expensive short term contracts. They won’t be trading their picks for this.

I have a hard time interacting with sports fans online. It seems there are 2 categories; oblivious and make stuff up. It is most irritating when it is make stuff up person.

Doug Armstrong never said the Blues were rebuilding.

If the Blues were entering a rebuild phase, skaters such as Binnington and Buchnevich would be sold for future assets.

The Blues are shifting. They are going to end up offloading a few older skaters, replacing them with younger skaters.

Doug did say that he was targeting players around the age of 25. Then, with those few new younger skaters, and the previous draft selections in development, the Blues will have established a foundation.

It will take 2 years. From the 2 year point on, the roster should change less, and the young skaters will grow into new roles. Entirely possible to return to legitimate cup contention in 4-5 years.

If the Blues draft with all of their picks the next 2 years, it will be 4-6 years until a foundation is set, and 6-8 years until cup contention.

The St. Louis market is not strong enough for the that.

This is why mid-market teams attempt to be competitive every year, while major market teams afford the luxury of a proper rebuild.

Unless Doug can't find a deal, the Blues will be trading picks for players. They will target players around the age of 25, per Doug. If you want to get rid of somebody like Krug, you're gonna have to pay.

This player is only expensive because of Krug's contract.

If they are not competing for a cup in 4-5 years - that's rebuilding Mothy...I never said they are going to tear it down, if they trade picks, it will be for younger players with control.
He said in interview on 101 ESPN that they were rebuilding. Basically said next year will be eval to see what they have. If they do not make the growing strides that he is hoping for next year though, the rebuild could take longer. That would mean possibly trading the Binnington's and Buchnevich's. Hear whatever you want but I didn't make anything up...

Sorry if I was rude, I can't even interact on hockey twitter because there are so many negative and rude - I am auto defensive. The term rebuild to me has a very clear definition. A proper rebuild is the replacement of the core through draft and development.

Unfortunately, St. Louis cannot afford a rebuild financially. This is why St. Louis takes the middle-road. This is why St. Louis never (very rarely) picks in the top 10. This is the burden of a mid-market team.

To give you an example of a proper rebuild, see the Buffalo Sabres.

The Sabres had a sub-.500 record for a very very long time. 2014/15-2021/22.

Eight years, as I described in my previous reply.

During that time, they traded multiple core pieces, such as Ryan O'Rielly at the age of 27 for futures. That was 5 years ago.

Presently, the Sabres have 4 defensemen they drafted during this time in their lineup, including two first overalls. The vast majority of their lineup are either players they drafted or players they acquired, such as Tage Thompson, when they tore it down.

They finally now have a record above .500.

St. Louis will not do this. They cannot financially.

Instead they will rotate youth, similar to how Florida dumped Weeger and Huberdeau on Calgary for Tkachuk.

They will trade off their older expiring skaters (Tarasenko, O'Rielly, a defenseman, maybe Saad, etc.) and replace them, as Doug said, with players around the age of 25.

St. Louis' roster will change drastically over 2 years, but they will not be waiting to populate the roster in the fashion of a rebuild. They are going to target skaters such as Provorov from teams who are going to rebuild, and rotate out older skaters. Over time, this years 1st and the previously selected skaters will join the team, and it will become a playoff bound team, and if Doug builds his 3rd stanley cup winner, they will be contenders.

I highly doubt Doug takes any more picks in the draft than any normal year. I feel it is nearly certain the later first picks will be moved for assets.

To identify what may happen, you should look to teams who could be entering a rebuild, see which skaters are 23-27, and put them on a list of "this guy maybe".

Ok - retrench or retool. Whatever you want to call it. Yes I know rebuild means basically shift everything out and basically start over. St. Louis is not going to do that nor do I think that would be right process right now. Armstrong will take an approach similar to the Kings recent 'retool' and even sited them as an example to try and remain competitive but being honest with-self at deadlines and taking on long term contracts via FA's or trades. Kings have had some high picks in recent drafts.... I understand financial situation with ownership/city/etc. His hope is to be cup competitive in 2-3 years. My whole point of the original post was that the blues would not trade picks to take on a contract like Provorov's at this point in time.

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Provorov hasn't been good. Are there mitigating factors? Absolutely- lack of quality teammates and lack of rush based systems Provorov would likely thrive in. Do I think Provorov could be better on the Blues than for the Flyers? Absolutely. This does not change that Provorov has been bad this year, despite the circumstances. If you're trading for a player who has been bad, and hoping that they'll be good under different circumstances, that to me is a reclamation project. Ice time does not inspire me much, I take that as less of a function of Provorov's talent and more of a function of "who else is eating tough minutes for the Flyers if not him"

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I mean obviously it's not "move him now or you keep him for 4 more years". It's probably never going to be harder to move him now. He's been bad, injury riddled, and like you say, the real money is tough the next two years let alone the cap hit and trade clause. But in two years, the real money goes down and the trade clause goes modified. One could argue it makes more sense for the Blues to eat the tough years on Krug when they're going to be bad anyway and there's a good chance it gets easier, not harder, to move him in two years.

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In his prime, in theory. But what does it benefit the Blues to have a player in their prime if they are going to be bad during a good chunk of it?



Fair enough logic I suppose.



I'm not yet convinced they do intend to keep Parayko, but otherwise I do agree with this, the players they have paired him with have been awful.



28 years old and in need of a new contract, which the Blues would be obligated to give him if that's when they're back to contention. 28 is the age that Krug, Parayko, and Faulk were when they singed their contract, and three years later people are ready to fire at least two of those guys into the sun. I'm just not eager to be in a position where we're potentially locking in another huge defense contract for a 28 year old non-elite player right as our window opens because I'm watching those kinds of contracts slam our window shut right now.

I'm not opposed to the Blues using their picks to acquire certain players to speed up the rebuild, I just don't believe the potential reward of no Krug and possibly a good Provorov is worth the price of those picks.

I hear ya, makes sense. I wonder how fans would view STL's defense if the top pairing was an above average top pairing. I think it would unlock a lot for a lot of other skaters.

I'll be trying to find good fits from what I mentioned: around 25 - preferably younger, other team likely going to rebuild, fits a specific need on the team.

Depending on what happens to Boston's salary cap, I think the Blues should try to acquire Trent Frederic. He is stuck behind Charlie Coyle on their depth chart and is kicking ass. But Charlie Coyle is having a career year as 3C, and I think he will always stay in the 2-way shutdown role because he is extremely good at it. So what do the Bruins do with Frederic - he is due an RFA deal, and can force 2 years - meaning he could walk to free agency. The cap situation is not doing the Bruins any favors. If they are cap squeezed, the Bruins could decide a trade is better than the raise Frederic is due, or the higher pay it would take to get a term besides 2.

I also think the Blues should see what it would take to trade for Lawson Crouse of Arizona. He is good at something a lot of our top 6 is not good at: 5v5 goals. He has 1 less than Kyrou, but costs roughly half against the cap, and he hits. He would be expensive. He is a solid core piece.

I'd also like the Blues to look into Detroit's right side defense pipeline. They accumulated a lot of defenseman the previous drafts. Perhaps we could swap a forward prospect for a d prospect. The Blues and Wings trade a lot. They have a surplus, we have a surplus.