Mang gotta go

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Créé par: oilfire

Équipe: 2022-23 Flames de Calgary

Date de création initiale: 24 déc. 2022

Publié: 27 déc. 2022

Mode - plafond salarial: Basique

Description

I think we've got to seriously consider moving Mangiapane before his NTC kicks in. He's not cracking the top 6 and we already have too many expensive bottom 6 guys. It would probably be better for him as well, especially on a younger team like Arizona.

Arizona can afford him, will likely see some value in both Mangiapane and Kylington, Rooneys a dump but the 2 1sts should be enough. If not we could even throw in Pelletier, barring injuries, it doesn't look like he'll crack the lineup any time soon.

Chychrun may not be what we need but he's proving to be quite good this year and is good insurance if Hanifin won't resign. He's also one of the best pieces from one of the few teams that can afford to take on Mangiapane. If we have to pay for good players to go out the door, might as well try and get something good in return. Very few teams can afford to take a chance on Mangiapane with his term.

Most would be concerned with Chychruns injury history, but he doesn't need to play 20+ minutes a night here. If things work out Stone should be able to rotate in and do some load management for him and Tanev.

It's not the first time I've tried this, but I see all sorts of trades giving up Dube, Backlund, Vladar etc. Dubes producing more, has better +/-, costs half as much and is fitting in on the top 6. Backlunds awesome in the dot, can fill in as 2C and is the longest standing Flame. Vladars been great, the only reason I could see wanting to move him is to make room for Wolf.

In a few years it's probably going to look like a bad move, but we just can't afford to let him find his game over the next few years.

Signatures de joueurs autonomes

LISTE DE RÉSERVE		ANS	CAP HIT
Coronato, Matthew		3	925 000 $

Transactions

CGY

Chychrun, Jakob

ARI

Kylington, Oliver
Mangiapane, Andrew
Rooney, Kevin
Choix de 1e ronde en 2023 (CGY)
Choix de 1e ronde en 2024 (CGY)

Détails additionnels:

2024 conditional on whether MTL takes it, get 2025 instead if so.

Repêchage	1e ronde	2e ronde	3e ronde	4e ronde	5e ronde	6e ronde	7e ronde
2023
2024
2025

FORMATION

VUE À LONG TERME

INTÉGRÉ

TEXTE INTÉGRÉ

TAILLE DE LA FORMATION	PLAFOND SALARIAL	CAP HIT	EXCÉDENTS	BONIS	ESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
23	82 500 000 $	69 187 500 $	0 $	200 000 $	13 312 500 $

Ailier gauche	Centre	Ailier droit
Dubé, Dillon 2 300 000 $2 300 000 $ AG, AD, C RFA - 2	Lindholm, Elias 4 850 000 $4 850 000 $ C, AD UFA - 2	Toffoli, Tyler 2 125 000 $2 125 000 $ AD, AG UFA - 2
Huberdeau, Jonathan 5 900 000 $5 900 000 $ AG, AD M-NTC UFA - 1	Kadri, Nazem 7 000 000 $7 000 000 $ C NMC UFA - 7	Coronato, Matthew 925 000 $925 000 $ AD RFA - 3
Ruzicka, Adam 762 500 $762 500 $ AG, C UFA - 2	Backlund, Mikael 5 350 000 $5 350 000 $ C M-NTC UFA - 2	Phillips, Matthew 750 000 $750 000 $ AD, C UFA - 1
Coleman, Blake 4 900 000 $4 900 000 $ AD, AG NTC UFA - 5	Zohorna, Radim 750 000 $750 000 $ AG, AD UFA - 1	Lewis, Trevor 800 000 $800 000 $ (200 000 $$200K) AD, C UFA - 1
Lucic, Milan 5 250 000 $5 250 000 $ AG, AD M-NTC, NMC UFA - 1
Ritchie, Brett 750 000 $750 000 $ AD UFA - 1

Défenseur gaucher	Défenseur droitier	Gardien de but
Hanifin, Noah 1 237 500 $1 237 500 $ DG M-NTC UFA - 2	Andersson, Rasmus 4 550 000 $4 550 000 $ DD UFA - 4	Markström, Jacob 6 000 000 $6 000 000 $ G NMC UFA - 4
Zadorov, Nikita 3 750 000 $3 750 000 $ DG/DD UFA - 2	Weegar, MacKenzie 3 250 000 $3 250 000 $ DG/DD UFA - 1	Vladar, Daniel 750 000 $750 000 $ G UFA - 1
Chychrun, Jakob 4 600 000 $4 600 000 $ DG/DD UFA - 3
Stone, Michael 750 000 $750 000 $ DD UFA - 1	Tanev, Christopher 1 125 000 $1 125 000 $ DD M-NTC UFA - 2

Laissés de côté	Liste des blessés (IR)	Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
	Gilbert, Dennis 762 500 $762 500 $ DG UFA - 2

27 déc. 2022 à 0 h 48

Chapee44

Rejoint: janv. 2019

Messages: 2,556

Mentions "j'aime": 1,051

Would love to have Mangiapane in Buffalo. We don't really have big pieces to sell but could definitely clear cap space for you and give you an asset or two to go shopping with.

oilfire a aimé ceci.

27 déc. 2022 à 1 h 16

LIRIK

Rejoint: mars 2022

Messages: 2,675

Mentions "j'aime": 1,027

How about Edmundson 50% retained and Anderson for that package?

oilfire a aimé ceci.

27 déc. 2022 à 1 h 20

Ledge_And_Dairy

Rejoint: juin 2019

Messages: 39,090

Mentions "j'aime": 20,059

This is a ridiculous take, saying he's not cracking the top 6 is just dumb. He's quite clearly top 6 in ice time by well over a minute. Backlund is the "3rd line center" but has the 2nd highest ice time among all forwards on the team.

Mangiapane has been scoring at well under his average shooting percentage over the last 3-4 years he will certainly pick it up and i expect being reunited with his linemates from last year will definitely light a spark

oilfire a aimé ceci.

27 déc. 2022 à 1 h 33

oilfire

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Quoting: LIRIK

How about Edmundson 50% retained and Anderson for that package?

Sutter would probably like it, it doesn't give me the cap space that I'm trying to make though.

LIRIK a aimé ceci.

27 déc. 2022 à 2 h 2

oilfire

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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy

Everybody's good next to Backlund, let's try Rosy or Pelletier or Zary instead. His ice time is from not producing next to Kadri. Not only was he not producing but he's getting scored on as well.

I don't want the most expensive 3rd line in the league when we have other options. I'd like some money kicking around to pay raises to guys who are earning it, rather than sending them out the door so we can afford to give Mangiapane a chance to find his game.

If he gets off the schnide and starts scoring this is a different conversation but right now he's not worth getting locked into with the rest of the contracts we're locked into. He hasn't done anything in the past 5 games, barely done anything in the last 10. Every time he scores I think "great he's gonna get rolling", then he just goes quiet again.

Backlunds ice time is coming from the penalty kill and when he was basically our 1C next to Huby. I'm pretty sure when everything is running smoothly that line plays closer to 12-15 min. Look at Colemans TOI for a better representation.

27 déc. 2022 à 2 h 13

oilfire

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Quoting: Chapee44

Would love to have Mangiapane in Buffalo. We don't really have big pieces to sell but could definitely clear cap space for you and give you an asset or two to go shopping with.

He'd probably do well there, nice young team, maybe get a chance next to Tage Lemieux. I like Mangiapane and I want to see him succeed, I'd like him to put himself in a position to get a raise, I'm just not seeing it here at the moment.

27 déc. 2022 à 7 h 5

littlejerryseinfeld

Rejoint: nov. 2017

Messages: 28,119

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Quoting: LIRIK

How about Edmundson 50% retained and Anderson for that package?

I wouldn't trade a crisp 5 dollar bill for that package

yycofred a aimé ceci.

27 déc. 2022 à 7 h 5

Ledge_And_Dairy

Rejoint: juin 2019

Messages: 39,090

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Quoting: oilfire

This is such a crazy overreaction, the guy had over 30 goals last year and by every statistic has been elite for multiple years. It is very common for players to have a down period after signing a *** deal. Just look at Rasmus Andersson, i wpuld bet you were on the trade Ras bandwagon 2 years ago too

27 déc. 2022 à 7 h 7

littlejerryseinfeld

Rejoint: nov. 2017

Messages: 28,119

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Quoting: oilfire

So you are willing to throw years of good play out the window due to 30 games of bad puck luck? I bet 20 teams call you for him.

27 déc. 2022 à 8 h 21

#10

oilfire

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Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld

So you are willing to throw years of good play out the window due to 30 games of bad puck luck? I bet 20 teams call you for him.

I'm willing to take drastic measures to try and take advantage of a short window before we potentially lose Lindholm and Hanifin and before Kadri and Huberdeau age out.

He's not likely going to turn things around playing less. If he's going to lose the opportunity to play the top line to Dube and Ruzicka then why not move him?

Chapee44 a aimé ceci.

27 déc. 2022 à 8 h 39

#11

ricochetii

Go Habs Go

Rejoint: mars 2017

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Anyone could have told you his production wasn't sustainable. He doesn't have the shot volume to maintain a 30 goal pace with his expected regression in shooting percentage.
You probably got off lucky with his contract being short on term, but he could still hit 20 goals.

oilfire a aimé ceci.

27 déc. 2022 à 9 h 10

#12

oilfire

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Modifié 27 déc. 2022 à 9 h 16

Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy

Mangiapane has 581 mins 7 goals and 14 pts
Thats .012 goals a minute and .024 points per minute.

Ruzicka has 321 mins 6g 20pts, .019gpm and .062ppm
Ppm = points per minute, gpm = goals per minute

Ritchie @ 251 mins has 6g 8pts .024gpm .032ppm

Lewis @ 452m has 7g 12p .015gpm .027ppm

Ritchie has one less goal has spent time eating popcorn, and scores way more consistently.

Ruzicka has performed every where we put him, next to Lindholm, Backlund and now continues to produce on the 4th line. Granted I don't think he was doing amazing next to Backlund.

Lewis has a lot more TOI but a lot of that is penalty kill and he still has the same goals and scores more consistently.

Lucic is scoring more consistently on that line, granted he has the addition of Huby and it's a small sample size vs. not great teams.

Yes it's an over reaction, maybe he needs some time with Backlund or maybe he needs to see things from the press box for a couple games. But if he doesn't turn it around soon, how much longer do we give him? We're almost half way through the season, barely in a playoff spot and having difficulty beating the worst teams in the league. I would rather do something drastic than sit here and watch the ship sink.

27 déc. 2022 à 9 h 16

#13

oilfire

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Quoting: ricochetii

He plays really well, I'm sure if you dig into his advanced stats it probably tells a good story. He's getting bad puck luck, not working next to Kadri, not getting a chance next to Lindholm. I think he'll turn it around but I would rather see him succeed somewhere else than continue to flounder here.

27 déc. 2022 à 11 h 36

#14

yycofred

Rejoint: mars 2021

Messages: 2,170

Mentions "j'aime": 903

The Mangiapane contract was ideal at longer term less than 5M per year, his agent did a great job of getting him high dollar and walk to free agency. He probably scored 30 again in his career but I don't think it's during this 2 year deal. Doesn't mean he isn't effective but it's a lot of money for a really really good middle six and good top 6 guy.

oilfire a aimé ceci.

27 déc. 2022 à 13 h 46

#15

Chapee44

Rejoint: janv. 2019

Messages: 2,556

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Quoting: oilfire

This is a fine stance to take. I wish more GMs were aggressive enough to do it. The only danger is make sure you get value back at the same time.

oilfire a aimé ceci.

27 déc. 2022 à 15 h 57

#16

Ledge_And_Dairy

Rejoint: juin 2019

Messages: 39,090

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Quoting: oilfire

Mangiapane has 581 mins 7 goals and 14 pts
Thats .012 goals a minute and .024 points per minute.

Ruzicka has 321 mins 6g 20pts, .019gpm and .062ppm
Ppm = points per minute, gpm = goals per minute

Ritchie 251 mins has 6g 8pts .024gpm .032ppm

Lewis 452m has 7g 12p .015gpm .027ppm

Ritchie has one less goal has spent time eating popcorn, and scores way more consistently.

Ruzicka has performed every where we put him, next to Lindholm, Backlund and now continues to produce on the 4th line. Granted I don't think he was doing amazing next to Backlund.

Lewis has a lot more TOI but a lot of that is penalty kill and he still has the same goals and scores more consistently.

Lucic is scoring more consistently on that line, granted he has the addition of Huby and it's a small sample size vs. not great teams.

Yes it's an over reaction, maybe he needs some time with Backlund or maybe he needs to see things from the press box for a couple games. But if he doesn't turn it around soon, how much longer do we give him? We're almost half way through the season, barely in a playoff spot and having difficulty beating the worst teams in the league. I would rather do something drastic than sit here and watch the ship sink.

Anyone can look up points like that, thats why I literally he was scoring at well under his regular shooting percentage. He would have ~12 goals by now with his average S%

If you think the answer is to bench him a game sure, but selling him at 1/8th his actual value is moronic

27 déc. 2022 à 16 h 13

#17

oilfire

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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy

Keeping him until he's worth nothing ain't that smart either.

27 déc. 2022 à 16 h 50

#18

oilfire

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Quoting: yycofred

I have no problem with him maxing out his contract. In this hard cap it's difficult for players to get what they're worth and hockey players are ridiculously under paid compared to other sports.

On the flip side, teams just can't afford to keep guys that are under performing, if we had more money or didn't have such high aspirations for the next couple years, this would be a non issue.

27 déc. 2022 à 16 h 57

#19

Ledge_And_Dairy

Rejoint: juin 2019

Messages: 39,090

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Quoting: oilfire

Keeping him until he's worth nothing ain't that smart either.

if you truly believe he is going to get worse then I have nothing left to say to you. Players don't just suddenly forget how to play hockey in the start of their prime

27 déc. 2022 à 17 h 34

#20

oilfire

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Quoting: Ledge_And_Dairy

if you truly believe he is going to get worse then I have nothing left to say to you. Players don't just suddenly forget how to play hockey in the start of their prime

I don't see him getting better playing less, maybe he just needs a few games with Backlund and then he could potentially earn Dubes spot and get back on track. But, if he's not going to get the best chances to succeed here, let him get the opportunity elsewhere.

I thought he deserved Toffolis spot at the beginning of the season and when the lines were going through the blender, I didn't understand why he didn't get Rosys spot next to Lindholm. I guess it's because out the gate, that Dube, Kadri, Mang line was the best we had, but it's always been pretty bad defensively.

Coming into the season I loved that we had real depth players as opposed to whatever you can get from the bargain bin. But now it's starting to feel like we have nothing but good middle six guys. That's an over exaggeration, Lindholm, Kadri, Toffoli, Ruzicka and now Dube are all looking decent but overall it's not quite good enough. Based on that who comes out to make room for Phillips, Pelletier, Coronato or Zary?

My point about Rosys, Ritchies and Lewis production is that they've all earned more minutes but we've just been riding Mangiapane. I do understand that they likely don't produce at the same rate against tougher match ups but they've earned the shot.

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Mang gotta go

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