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If Hornqvist isnt dumped please read

Créé par: GMBL
Équipe: 2022-23 Maple Leafs de Toronto
Date de création initiale: 24 nov. 2022
Publié: 24 nov. 2022
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Read the trade descriptions before commenting please. I fully expect Zito to do whatever it takes to dump Hornqvist since it will help them come deadline time too and not just to activate Duclair
Transactions
TOR
  1. Duclair, Anthony
Détails additionnels:
Does Dubas make this trade? I hope not, but he might (maybe Zito would take Malgin instead? Joking). Duclair is all offense but that makes him a good addition to the top 6 over Kerfoot if Robertson doesn't manage to stay in the line up before Duclair's imminent return.

Leafs would need to clear up some cap to activate Rielly or run a 21-man roster.
FLA
  1. Robertson, Nicholas
Détails additionnels:
Hornqvist can be buried for ~1.6m in cap to allow for Robertson (still waiver exempt) to play or a different acquisition to play.

Zito will want to dump Hornqvist's 5.3m contract but 1) the cost of dumping such a contract could be too high 2) Hornqvist does have an 8 team no trade list that could cover all the teams with the cap to take on his hit. He probably does prefer to play in the NHL though so we will see.

Florida fans, I know you won't like the value, and there could be a team like CGY offering better. Interested teams will likely lowball but there might be one that is desperate and pays up, at the end of the day GMs will take the best offer presented. I'm not going to worry about all the possible offers that could beat this one or what Dubas would add in terms of picks to make a fair deal.
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TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2282 500 000 $77 373 746 $212 500 $0 $5 126 254 $
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1 800 000 $1 800 000 $
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24 nov. 2022 à 9 h 18
#1
LongtimeLeafsufferer
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I just wonder if the Leafs can afford the cap for Duclair this year and next. Gotta think some other team can accommodate his cap, even if for a "flip" later
Hornqvist M NTC really makes him untradable. He just blocks any team with cap, and other teams can't afford him or want his cap.
Sending a player to the AHL doesn't help the cap much. Saves 1.1m and then a replacement player cost 800,000. A saving of 300,000
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24 nov. 2022 à 9 h 25
#2
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Cant he just waive Hornqvist if he can't trade him?
24 nov. 2022 à 9 h 29
#3
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Quoting: palhal
I just wonder if the Leafs can afford the cap for Duclair this year and next. Gotta think some other team can accommodate his cap, even if for a "flip" later
Hornqvist M NTC really makes him untradable. He just blocks any team with cap, and other teams can't afford him or want his cap.
Sending a player to the AHL doesn't help the cap much. Saves 1.1m and then a replacement player cost 800,000. A saving of 300,000


The Leafs should be able to afford Duclair this year by either clearing like 200k or something or running a 21-man roster, next year they could keep him easily, Kerfoot+Engvall+Bunting+Samsonov current hits = Duclair + Samsonov at 4m + 1.5m (if they can get Sammy for lower then they can fit Knies+ league min player)
When I checked for Hornqvist it said it would clear $1,654,166 to send him down, if they are able to get Hornqvist to clear for a cap team I do
24 nov. 2022 à 9 h 34
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Modifié 24 nov. 2022 à 9 h 59
Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
Cant he just waive Hornqvist if he can't trade him?


I think he can (I don't see that Hornqvist has a NMC) which was my assumption but it only clears up 1.6m. That doesn't mean that he could force Hornqvist to waive, even if he's playing in the AHL he's going to make 5.3m in a tax-free state, come playoff time, they will call him up anyways.

I do have an idea that I would really like for the Panthers if Hornqvist is willing to cooperate, just need to know who Florida's top prospects are someone who is equivalent to knies/niemela and someone who is more of a Robertson level guy.
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24 nov. 2022 à 9 h 59
#5
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Quoting: GMBL
I think he can (I don't see that Hornqvist has a NMC) which was my assumption but it only clears up 1.6m. That doesn't mean that he could force Hornqvist to waive, even if he's playing in the AHL he's going to make 5.3m in a tax-free state, come playoff time, they will call him up anyways.

I do have an idea that I would really like for the Panthers if Hornqvist is willing to cooperate, just need to know who Florida's top prospects are.


Can't they waive him for buyout purposes and save 3.6 million?
24 nov. 2022 à 10 h 0
#6
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Quoting: GMBL
The Leafs should be able to afford Duclair this year by either clearing like 200k or something or running a 21-man roster, next year they could keep him easily, Kerfoot+Engvall+Bunting+Samsonov current hits = Duclair + Samsonov at 4m + 1.5m (if they can get Sammy for lower then they can fit Knies+ league min player)
When I checked for Hornqvist it said it would clear $1,654,166 to send him down, if they are able to get Hornqvist to clear for a cap team I do


Duclair by your own admission is a one dimensional player who's rather poor Defensively. With Florida in such a bind, why would they give up a kid who's shown some flashes and is also rather offensive but with a lot of upside for a guy making 3 million? Seems anyone would be able to grind Florida a lot more than giving up a good prospect to a team with little choice.
24 nov. 2022 à 10 h 0
#7
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Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
Can't they waive him for buyout purposes and save 3.6 million?


Not in season
24 nov. 2022 à 10 h 1
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Modifié 24 nov. 2022 à 10 h 11
Quoting: littlejerryseinfeld
Can't they waive him for buyout purposes and save 3.6 million?


Can't buyout in the middle of the year to get cap. The only way they can waive for purposes to terminate his contract is if they have grounds to do so, which they don't.
24 nov. 2022 à 10 h 10
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Modifié 24 nov. 2022 à 10 h 15
Quoting: Logan_Ollivier
Duclair by your own admission is a one dimensional player who's rather poor Defensively. With Florida in such a bind, why would they give up a kid who's shown some flashes and is also rather offensive but with a lot of upside for a guy making 3 million? Seems anyone would be able to grind Florida a lot more than giving up a good prospect to a team with little choice.


Well if they aren't confident in Robertson, then I could see them doing it, the 1 for 1 isn't a hefty price to give up for Duclair, I would go as far as saying that Dubas would add a 3rd rounder in value if he's interested in Duclair (he may not be). I personally don't like the move for Toronto since I think Robertson would light them up, but I could see it happen. I do love the move for Robertson though, if Florida plays him.

The Leafs could use some help with offense, and guys like Kerfoot could focus more on playing defense. Perhaps Dubas could even use the deal to lose a minor league contract or two, so that he isn't in a position of weakness in other trades. It also gives the flexibility for the Leafs to move on from Kerfoot or Engvall for cheaper alternatives who just need to fill the pking roles, only needs to be like 200-300k cheaper to allow for Rielly to be reactivated. The move also guarantees that at least one of the LW top 6 spots for the Leafs next season is filled.
24 nov. 2022 à 11 h 24
#10
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Quoting: GMBL
Well if they aren't confident in Robertson, then I could see them doing it, the 1 for 1 isn't a hefty price to give up for Duclair, I would go as far as saying that Dubas would add a 3rd rounder in value if he's interested in Duclair (he may not be). I personally don't like the move for Toronto since I think Robertson would light them up, but I could see it happen. I do love the move for Robertson though, if Florida plays him.

The Leafs could use some help with offense, and guys like Kerfoot could focus more on playing defense. Perhaps Dubas could even use the deal to lose a minor league contract or two, so that he isn't in a position of weakness in other trades. It also gives the flexibility for the Leafs to move on from Kerfoot or Engvall for cheaper alternatives who just need to fill the pking roles, only needs to be like 200-300k cheaper to allow for Rielly to be reactivated. The move also guarantees that at least one of the LW top 6 spots for the Leafs next season is filled.


That hinges entirely on Duclair fitting in with TO. He may look good on transition or on fast breaks but may struggle with his own zone play and defensive assignments. Much like Kapanen was loved by so many for his speed, he cost the team too much by being so bad defensively. I agree finding someone who can score more is a good idea but I don't see Duclair being the answer. I would hope for someone who can get in front and get more garbage goals.
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24 nov. 2022 à 11 h 28
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Quoting: Logan_Ollivier
That hinges entirely on Duclair fitting in with TO. He may look good on transition or on fast breaks but may struggle with his own zone play and defensive assignments. Much like Kapanen was loved by so many for his speed, he cost the team too much by being so bad defensively. I agree finding someone who can score more is a good idea but I don't see Duclair being the answer. I would hope for someone who can get in front and get more garbage goals.


And I think that's someone that they would rather get too like a Vatrano type.
24 nov. 2022 à 12 h 24
#12
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Quoting: GMBL
And I think that's someone that they would rather get too like a Vatrano type.


It's a complex add. Either need someone who can score in the top 6 and if they don't find chemistry, then they need to add something to the bottom 6 and that makes it a little tougher.
24 nov. 2022 à 12 h 45
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Quoting: Logan_Ollivier
It's a complex add. Either need someone who can score in the top 6 and if they don't find chemistry, then they need to add something to the bottom 6 and that makes it a little tougher.


Yeah, if they can't get someone who is bound to work there like a true top 6 who can make their own opportunities, then they need a Kerfoot-like middle sixer. The preference would probably be someone who can be added by just removing Engvall and has 2/3 years of term. Then they could replace Kerfoot for the future. They just need to be a better goal scorer, even if they are worse than Kerfoot defensively, they just need to be good enough that if they don't work in the top 6, they can be slid down to the bottom 6 and still have a role.

I've seen Barbashev being suggested since he has the same cap hit as Engvall and is more physical, I don't see him as a Kerfoot replacement on the second line, so either Robertson needs to work there or Knies going ahead.
24 nov. 2022 à 15 h 12
#14
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Quoting: GMBL
Yeah, if they can't get someone who is bound to work there like a true top 6 who can make their own opportunities, then they need a Kerfoot-like middle sixer. The preference would probably be someone who can be added by just removing Engvall and has 2/3 years of term. Then they could replace Kerfoot for the future. They just need to be a better goal scorer, even if they are worse than Kerfoot defensively, they just need to be good enough that if they don't work in the top 6, they can be slid down to the bottom 6 and still have a role.

I've seen Barbashev being suggested since he has the same cap hit as Engvall and is more physical, I don't see him as a Kerfoot replacement on the second line, so either Robertson needs to work there or Knies going ahead.


Or they go big game hunting. Which to me is likely a better idea. Especially since we aren't adding a guy to be a star. Just add some extra power to an already powerful team. Any of the big name adds will have reduced roles in TO which takes some pressure off them. Like Horvat would either be 3rd line or play on the wing with JT and Nylander. Giving us a way more dangerous team.
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24 nov. 2022 à 15 h 20
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Modifié 24 nov. 2022 à 15 h 25
Quoting: Logan_Ollivier
Or they go big game hunting. Which to me is likely a better idea. Especially since we aren't adding a guy to be a star. Just add some extra power to an already powerful team. Any of the big name adds will have reduced roles in TO which takes some pressure off them. Like Horvat would either be 3rd line or play on the wing with JT and Nylander. Giving us a way more dangerous team.


Yeah, there's always the top 6 pure rental option that can be placed as the 3C or 2C/2LW if need be. Can't make a move like that until later in the season though. A 3m guy is about the most they can add if Muzzin does return during this season, so until that February evaluation, can't get someone that costs more than that, and getting retention on Horvat will cost a ton.
24 nov. 2022 à 15 h 31
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Quoting: GMBL
Yeah, there's always the top 6 pure rental option that can be placed as the 3C or 2C/2LW if need be. Can't make a move like that until later in the season though. A 3m guy is about the most they can add if Muzzin does return during this season, so until that February evaluation, can't get someone that costs more than that, and getting retention on Horvat will cost a ton.


Yeah but I would rather take the plunge then have Tampa or Boston do it.
24 nov. 2022 à 16 h 9
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Quoting: Logan_Ollivier
Yeah but I would rather take the plunge then have Tampa or Boston do it.


Tampa probably doesn't at least not in a big way, Boston probably does. The Bruins are probably the team most likely to exist the Atlantic Gauntlet this year imo. They have a lot of cap to reallocate next season, so if they want to add Horvat they could and also be able to extend him like they did with Lindholm.
24 nov. 2022 à 16 h 29
#18
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Quoting: GMBL
Tampa probably doesn't at least not in a big way, Boston probably does. The Bruins are probably the team most likely to exist the Atlantic Gauntlet this year imo. They have a lot of cap to reallocate next season, so if they want to add Horvat they could and also be able to extend him like they did with Lindholm.


I think Boston is overrated. They are still very much a good team but they aren't the best in the league. They'll have a stretch or two of not great play and will be fighting for the division crown but very well could lose out to one of Tampa or TO. I think their offence will lose some lustre down the stretch.
24 nov. 2022 à 17 h 27
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Quoting: Logan_Ollivier
I think Boston is overrated. They are still very much a good team but they aren't the best in the league. They'll have a stretch or two of not great play and will be fighting for the division crown but very well could lose out to one of Tampa or TO. I think their offence will lose some lustre down the stretch.


Boston might not be the best team in the league but they are in a good position to add guys that they can potentially retain. Can't say the same for TB or TOR so they probably won't be making big splashes. Both teams could knock off Boston, but first Toronto needs to win a round and get that off their backs, they probably also need to avoid game 7s. Tampa is very much still a good team but each year they are more tired, and you can tell by their starts. I believe this year was a bit more slower than last year.

Boston might end up playing a team from the Metro though, so perhaps they get knocked off in the 1st round.
24 nov. 2022 à 19 h 9
#20
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Quoting: GMBL
Boston might not be the best team in the league but they are in a good position to add guys that they can potentially retain. Can't say the same for TB or TOR so they probably won't be making big splashes. Both teams could knock off Boston, but first Toronto needs to win a round and get that off their backs, they probably also need to avoid game 7s. Tampa is very much still a good team but each year they are more tired, and you can tell by their starts. I believe this year was a bit more slower than last year.

Boston might end up playing a team from the Metro though, so perhaps they get knocked off in the 1st round.


Well Murray and Samsonov are stealing games which we haven't had since Andersen first came here. That is a big difference come playoffs. We haven't had a goalie steal a game in the playoffs in the Matthews era. Not once. We have had goalies cost us games. Andersen gave up a lot of bad goals. Campbell was good but didn't steal anything if Campbell was able to do that once, we would have gone deeper. Murray has done it in the past so I feel we have a good shot.
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