marner mcavoy fiala and hischier are a joke right???

pretty sure the athletic just ranked mcavoy's contract the 3rd best in the league and that compared to league average contract his open market value is actually 16.5 mill.

Honestly a pretty good list outside of McAvoy

a few other iffy ones
marner at most is 1 mill overpaid most the top wingers gaudreau/tkachuck/kuch/rantanen/ kaprizov are getting 9-9.5 mill and huberdeau is at 10.5, pasta probably gets 9.5 this offseason so that's about the range you pay for a top 10 winger

as for fiala maybe 800k at most

hischier though that is dumb he is well worth 7.25 mill especially with centers you usually pay a premium

No Zaitsev?

He's making 4.5 and worth exactly $0.00.

Other than what you mentioned, Price shouldn't be there unless Vesi is. Nemeth sucks but he's getting 2.5m lol, most guys getting that are bottom pairing guys at best. Panarin got ufa premium ofc, but he's still a top winger in the League, he's getting 10m+ now from any team, maybe 9.5m in low tax states since they seem to like 9m or 9.5m for their highest paid players. 3.6m for Goodrow beats 5m for a similar. Skjei and Trouba’s contracts are fine, same with Couture even if it will age poorly like Benn's did. Doughty and Karlsson got insane money even though they were great and could still be great if they were healthier perhaps but still was a bad idea to pay them that much. I'm guessing Makar will get a monster deal like them that will age poorly if he slows fast.

Price absolutely should be there

Unless, it's because he might never play again, explain.

price outside that one playoff run has been a league average goalie since 2018-19
2019-20 and 20-21 haven't been kind to him.

on the other hand Vasi has been the consensus number 1 goalie for about 5 years now and he is making less then price


also your re-comment on mine was a very very very terrible take

- makar is signed for another 5 more season at 9 mill he is on a steal of a deal and easily the leagues best dman so don't even try to make him sound bad or that he will fail his contract.
- couture deal is terrible never once has he been worth 8 mill outside of one outlier 2018-19 "contract year" when san jose was stacked and made a solid PO run and he sure won't ever live up to it now having basically no surrounding cast in san jose
- doughty and karlsson's deal were bound to end bad near the end that was predictable
-goodrow cap isn't bad it's the term you just don't sign depth players for that long of term as they are stars who should stay consistent
-Trouba is worth about 5.-6.5 mill so yes he is still overpaid and skjei is definitely overpaid he is very very inconsistent and is a one dimensional defensive blackhole
- Panarin is iffy never once was he the best winger in the league and he shouldn't be the 2nd highest paid player in the league. with guys like Pastrnak expected to get 9.5 mill extension and then kap, ovi, gaudreau, tkachuk, stone, kuch, rantanen all making less then 2 mill then him then yes he is currently and overpay. marner may only make 700k less but he is also much younger and will be in his prime for his whole contract so his deal will be fine as cap goes up. but like all those other dudes at 9.5 still are movable if a team decides to rebuild, no one will be taking panarin at 11.6 mill from the age of 31 to 34

One playoff run isn't true, every playoff run Price had he was great, he's been on a non-playoff team since 2018-19,so he only had two recent ones because of covid circumstances, can't judge him off his last 5-games either. So, between his long-injury history, particularly 2017 and beyond (https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/player-bio/carey-price/bio) , and playing behind a terrible team, and his most recent play being good aside from those 5-games, he shouldn’t be there unless Vesi is. Vesi, was top 3 in vezina voting in 2019-20, 2020-21, but 5th in 2021-22, so either you say he's overpriced, or you say well look at his playoff performance this year, he was top 3 (or the best). So if you are going to factor in Vesi's playoff performance this year to say he's worth 30-40% more than other Vezina goalies, then you need to give Price the benefit of the doubt based of his recent play. Vesi is considered the best because of his playoff performances in the last 3 years along with him being consistently a Vezina caliber goalie as well in that time, even if he didn't win in the last 3 years. I could argue that Igor is the best now off his regular season and playoff performances last year and he's making much less than both of them along with the other top goalies in the League.

Pastrnak is expected to get 10.5, Panarin is just as good as Pastrnak, he has a much higher PPG rate but Pasta has much more goals. If you look at the combined stats of last 5 seasons, Panarin is top 5 in points and Pasta is top 5 in goals (last 3 years Panarin is also top 5 in points among ALL skaters) . Panarin signed as a ufa and ofc there's a premium but saying someone is overpaid in comparison to his similars because of 1.1m is just silly. Mind you that Gaudreau would be getting the similar if it wasn't for the flat cap. Ovi signed his contract so long ago, so don't bother comparing his AAV, if you want to bring him into the convo, look at the % of cap that he got as the League's best scorer. Kaprizov signed a 9.5x6 deal after playing less than 82 games, he's great, but he's not even a top 5 producer in the league over that time. If 9.5 is what he got then, I wonder what he will got on his next contract if and when he's producing like Panarin. As for Kucherov, he's actually getting paid like 100k more than Panarin, and aside from Ovechkin, he's the only offensive winger from those you mentioned who is better than him now. Stone might be the best defensive winger but that's not enough to put him ahead, but he's also getting paid similar to Panarin, and so is Tkachuk who isn't on Panarin's level.

Most teams are signing their superstars through at least up to age 34, to say that no one would take him between ages 31-34 at 11.6 isn't true, if a team with no stars can make space for him without crippling their team it's happening, plus I did say he would get 10.5 now. Panarin is a top 5 winger in the League now just off the fact that he is top 5 producer in the League. Kucherov, OVI, and Panarin are locks for top 5 based off their offensive skills. Pastrnak is the second best goal scorer among wingers, so he's in the convo, but so is Marchand and Marner based off their high production+two-way games, and they probably knock out Pastrnak, Kaprizov is the real deal so he's definitely going to be there sooner rather than later.

I wasn't saying Doughty and Karlsson's contracts weren't bad ideas from the start, mind you almost every superstars contract is expected to end badly. I was just saying expect Makar's next one to be similar in AAV and age the same if he slows down or gets plagued with injuries. I never talked about Makar's current contract, and it wasn't a steal, he's doing what he is getting paid to do.

As for the other guys which I said were fine, I said that because you can find 100s of player who are "overpaid" by 1-2m or in Trouba’s case 2.5m+. Can't be comparing great and good contracts of good/great players and say that is the base for everyone, can't ignore taxes either which dictates how much they are actually getting paid, and when the contracts were signed.

Long story short, need to put everything into perspective when comparing players.

Price has had 2 great playoff performances in 2 years when he never would've been there in a non covid season. He's had 1 above average regular season over the past 5 years, has injury issues and is getting paid 10.5M until he's 39 with no way of moving his contract to another team

So, basically what you are saying is that he's not worth it because he's injury-riddled and he plays behind a bad team so he has terrible regular season stats but if he's in the playoffs he's lights out except his team is so bad they can't make it without covid circumstances.

For the first reason, I would say that is fair to say he's overpaid compared to his peers. For the second, I would say give him the benefit of the doubt because he hasn't played healthy post 2017 especially and played behind a none-playoff team (and for many of those years they were bottom feeders). If he gets healthy again and plays good, which wouldn't be far-fetched if his team was decent, he could still be good, I wouldn't be fast to writeoff the goalie who took all major awards in 2015, considering that Fleury won a Vezina at age 37 recently, and Price's most recent play was amazing, aside from 5-games. The reason why I said you got to include Vesi as well then is because last year he was 5th in Vezina voting, his regular season stats are okay, if you choose to ignore his most recent playoff performance like you are willing to do with Price. The truth is they are both paid a ton more than Igor, who is probably going to be a top 2 goalie for a while but maybe not.

My conclusion from his regular season stats from the last 5 seasons is that he is injury-riddled and plays for a subpar team, and he was able to carry them all the way to the Finals last year, and I think only through playins and up to game 6 of the 1st round the previous one.

You don't judge player's contracts based on who other than then is getting underpaid, you judge the player and the player alone. Vasy is arguably the best goalie in the league, Price is years removed from that discussion and prone to miss time and in his mid 30's and getting paid until he's almost 40 and has a NMC so the team can't trade him even if anyone had interest

That intentional run on sentence can go forever. He's on a terrible contract and comparing him to Vasilevskiy is disrespectful as all hell when it comes to what they are now and their contract situations.

Again, Price has had 1 season over the last 5 that wasn't average at best. And that statement takes into account advanced stats which account for save difficulty. He's the highest paid goalie in hockey and hasn't played like for an extended period or normal hockey for he better part of a decade

Even if this year was all we could go off of for Vasy, he was still better than Price has been for a long time, is younger, and accounts for less of the salary cap

Comparing the two is absolutely mind boggling to me

If you aren't comparing them to other goalies that are "underpaid" that's fine (although there are only 3 goalies around 10m), I'm not saying Price is the best goalie or top 3. I'm saying he had bad stats on a bad team, even if his defence analytically was above average and he was posting sub-average numbers, that's ignoring his injuries and just that the team as a whole was terrible, so he's bound to have very bad nights on a 500 or sub. 500 team.

My point is you can't really rate Price fairly at this point. Just because he's older in age recency bias is rigged against him vs younger players. Here track record in the season at least is against him, and playoffs are ignored. Track record is also often ignored by people when it's in favor for older players as well like Panarin. If people are saying Oettinger should get 6m based off a season, I think you can give the former best goalie the benefit of the doubt based on his recent playoff performances. Maybe Price had a resurgence, can't judge him off 5-games where he was probably playing injured.

Also, highest paid goalie is Bob, then Vesi, then Price probably, has nothing to do with Price being overpaid but had to point that out, since the title isn't worst AAVs. My point wasn't that Price is just as good as Vesi, my point was that you can't say Price is overpaid without him playing again when he might have had a resurgence, just like you can't say Vesi is overpaid off last years regular season. Also, worth noting that Price's first year of his 10.5m contract was comparables to Vesi's

You can absolutely call Price overpaid. He's older, has dealt with and is still dealing with injuries and hasn't played consistently good hockey for years.

Comparing the mediocre last 5 years of a soon to be 35 year old to a 28 year old's "down year" that was still a good year followed by an elite playoffs is preposterous

I don't understand how you can't see that.

If you have to rely on an incredibly unlikely resurgence from an injured 35 year old to justify his contract, it's not a good contract. It's actually an awful contract

I already said if you are saying it because he's injured that's fair, which has part to do with him not playing good hockey aside from the playoff games in the two covid seasons in which he was great.

If he was healthy though just because he's old doesn't mean he wouldn't be good, Fleury just one a Vezina at 37. I'm not doubting Vesi's skill, I'm doubtful about how good Price is actually now. My point is you are ignoring Price's circumstances and good play because he's old. Injured goalies are rarely consistent, especially when they pay for poor teams.

I'm taking Price's body of work into account. Availability is the best ability, and when he's been available he's often left a lot to be desired.

And Price being older is absolutely a knock. Being older doesn't mean youre incapable of god, great, even elite play, but it doesn't mean you're less likely to produce that high level impact like you were when you were 27, 28 for example.

Every player, it's doesn't matter who, will begin to drop off when on the wrong side of 30. Now, dropping off doesn't mean you fall off of a cliff, but you will likely face a steady decline.

And when looking at contracts, term matters and it matters because age matters. Your ap hit is locked, and locking up over 10% of your cap on a guy who isn't getting any younger, is prone to missing time and hasn't even produced at a high enough level of play to justify his cap hit since he signed, it's a bad contract

Betting on him to justify his cap hit by bouncing back to his prime level of play from 6+ years ago is extremely unwise. That's almost half his career ago, its just not happening

You can call it unfair criticism of Carey Price, the player and person, but it's absolutely fair criticism of his contract, the Montreal Canadiens and Marc Bergevin

I hear you, I'm not advocating for his contract as a whole or the signing, I'm just saying based of his play alone, he hasn't lived up to the contract fully so yes, you could say so far he's overpaid. Will he live up to it? Probably, not because he's injury prone and his age factors into that but it's not solely based on his ability, since he has shown he can still be great when it matters.

So what I was saying is, whether he is overpaid now is somewhat ambiguous since there is the good with the bad once you put things into perspective. The contract being good or bad factors in more than if he's overpaid now, like his availability, remaining term, % of cap, and his performance for the rest of it. The same holds true for any player, the hope is that he's good for most of it.

If the question is, "Is Carey Price's contract bad, I would say probably". If it's is he overpaid, in his case I would want to see more before writing him off because the issue from the sample of games since 2017 or 18 when he played on that contract is consistency and availability due to injury, not that he's washed. At this point he could be, but his best hockey in that timeframe was his last bit of hockey aside from 5-games. If he never "earned" that contract in the first place, or showed that he still has it in him to compete, I wouldn't be undecided.