That offer still doesn't beat what Calgary got and the potential of if they re-sign with Calgary.

Also, how do you convince Muzzin to waive?

The Tkachuk trade wouldn't have made the Leafs better.

Also, saying the Leafs could have signed Zadorov, let alone for the same contract that the Leafs did is just an assumption. Perhaps Zadorov was not interested. Also, maybe Muzzin wouldn't have wanted to waive.

Edit: As tryger pointed out, there is no guaranteed that the Flames see this as a better offer either even if it was.

I believe this trade would be better long term for calgary, even though hubs and weager are great I think hubs will sign with montreal and weager will sign with the senators. Also this why it's called "couldve" looked like. It's all plausible only if muzzin waives.

Everything you've said is very possible but the title says "couldve" you never know how things couldve panned out differently.

Yeah, it's possible that it could have happened but also possible that it couldn't have is what I was trying to get at. It kind of seemed like you were saying "why didn't Dubas do this!?" which I would say that some of these moves might not have even been an option, particularly the Zadorov signing. I don't think CBJ would want Clifford's contracts on their books. He would just be someone that they could potentially claim of waivers if needed.

so a guy who didnt want to sign with them and woulnt have signed long term and a terrible defender who isnt a 2nd pairing guy for too much money?
yeah, ill take the current team

Zadorov also isnt good

I think he's okay, but not everyone is built to play in Toronto. He might be, he might not. Any player who is actually active on social media or follows sports media and play for Toronto better have thick skin. The media interviews is a whole other thing as well but perhaps a player can be evasive like Kessel.

we will not win anything with this current team in the next 2 years which is going to make auston to leave. so ya bad take gotta change the team. Labeled the title "couldve" you pigeon matthew is best friends with auston you never know, might of been a possibility

he's been real bad for years and finally had one decent season in the perfect roster spot with the perfect coach. He's been trash everywhere else and would be horrid in the leafs system even before the off ice stuff (i also have no idea if that would be a thing)

they'd be even worse with the team you made, so "couldve" is all neat and all that, but in this case it simply means they "couldve" had a worse off season and been worse going forward

unless your working with dubas and the leafs there is no way none of these could've been an option. Zadorov would've easily been an option he was a free agent. And i disagree with your kyle clifford take he's making a very cheap AV and it will help there 4th lines physicality presence. Everyone has their own opinions though.

I agree to disagree, the lines look very well rounded and that first line is killer. If you really hate zadorov that much move him to the third pairing and move lily up to the second with sandin they both deserve more time.

the first line is already killer and this 2nd line is much much worse, not to mention the forward depth isnt any better and it scoring depth was literally their biggest weakness in the past 2 playoffs, oh and Nylander scores way more than Tkachuk in the playoffs.
And Zadorov sucks and is worse than Holl, so you're paying him more to be worse no matter where you put him. This is an all around worse team than the one they have currently and then they'd lose Tkachuk when he wouldnt sign long term.

I think Matt Tkachuk is also friends with Marner, but the two seem to like to play with Bunting, especially Matthews if you have ever seen the two of them sitting on the bench after a goal.

This team might not win anything regardless, the media and people like to point that the Leafs have lost 6 consecutive round one's which is true but it's kind of silly to lump in the first two which was their rookie and sophomore seasons (teams with young and proven stars don't even make the playoffs) and Tavares wasn't even on the team. No one is going to be happy getting kicked out of the playoffs but really just 4 truly disappointing consecutive post-season series lost, with the last two being extremely difficult for the organization and the fanbase.

So if Matthews leaves Toronto because he doesn't like it their blame the media or him and the rest of the core players. He might leave for a better opportunity (not necessarily just based on an opportunity to win) and that's up to him.

Sounding like a true Dubas supporter, 6 consecutive round one losses and it really doesn't matter...... Done debating you after that comment....

Clifford is nothing special, do they really want to use one of their 50 contracts on him? Maybe they do, but maybe they don't. So, what I was saying was they probably wouldn't be really interested in trading for him even though they are looking for a physical presence, he's a guy they could potentially just claim. Toronto would just waive him, like they always do (they had to trade back for him) and then they could have claimed him for free if they still needed someone to fill that role. I wasn't talking about his AAV at all, just the contract itself.

Zadorov could have been an option but it's also possible that he wasn't, I don't know if he was or wasn't, so technically he might not have been an option is what I was saying.

Second line looks really good robertson needs high minutes to show his full potential. Tkachuk had one bad round, Nylander has had them before as well. They both can perform in the playoffs sometime people just don't get the puck luck in a series.. Saying Holl is better then Zadorov is comedy, holl literally can't play defence and has an IQ of a peanut. Zadorov is at least better defensively with no offensive game which is why we have gio, rielly and sandin. Zadorov's physical game makes him who he is and if you don't like that type of game I can tell why you hate him so much..

I don't care if Dubas stays or goes. I put everything into perspective and look at it objectively. I don't just blindly follow criticism or praise.

It's a fact that Tavares wasn't even on the team for 4 of them, so their core was different. They weren't the core 4, and if you want to blame Matthews, Nylander, and Marner for not being able to win as rookies and sophomores with guys like Bozak, JVR, and Kadri, who had no success either and were missing the playoffs, then that's up to you.

I would like you to give me a long list of young stars who had a ton of playoff success in their first and second years. The most successful duo of young stars in recent years have been Kane and Toews who won their cup in their 3rd season. We haven't even started "debating" for us to be done.

If you think Holl is bad, you should pay attention to what Zadorov does. He knows how to do one thing and that's chase hits. He's awful defensivly unless he has a system built around him by sutter. He's been terrible at a level people who hate holl cant even dream up for years.

Thanks for your insight

I'm not blaming the core 4 for not winning when they were young, i'm blaming dubas for putting such a mediocre team around them especially since I hated the tavares signing when it happened. Dubas digs himself into a hole and fixes it up while loosing value and some leaf fans praise him for it.

no problem, thanks for letting us know that the leafs 'couldve' been worse

sounds like you couldve been done

ok Jared