The Return

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I can't see how Laine is worth more now than what the Jets got for him. The Jets got one first round pick when they traded him, but now he's worth 3. How do you justify that?

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21 janv. 2022 à 15 h 51

dlt_hfu2847whsba

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I don't see Laine wanting to stay in Columbus but honestly don't totally see him wanting to be back in Winnipeg either. Especially if the rumors of Scheifele and Wheeler edging him out were true.

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21 janv. 2022 à 15 h 54

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Quoting: Windjammer

I can't see how Laine is worth more now than what the Jets got for him. The Jets got one first round pick when they traded him, but now he's worth 3. How do you justify that?

PLD was worth more than a 1st. He was already NHL established and only improving. Laine isn’t even a rental here, RFA still. You will move him after and recoup half of the price you paid.

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21 janv. 2022 à 15 h 55

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Quoting: Windjammer

I can't see how Laine is worth more now than what the Jets got for him. The Jets got one first round pick when they traded him, but now he's worth 3. How do you justify that?

I mean Dubois alone was worth 2 1sts at least at the time. Jets basically swapped value with CBJ. I’m upping the price for laine now considering this is what the Jets desperately need and teams will know that. Lucius looks like he’ll be solid, but you never know, the jets are essentially hoping he’s a version of Laine. Heinola is NHL ready but hasn’t gotten opportunity to play, and with Samberg showing hes NHL ready the lineup has just gotten longer. I don’t like moving a 1st in the 2022 draft but you got to give quality to get quality.

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21 janv. 2022 à 15 h 55

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Quoting: NYR1983

PLD was worth more than a 1st. He was already NHL established and only improving. Laine isn’t even a rental here, RFA still. You will move him after and recoup half of the price you paid.

This guy gets it

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21 janv. 2022 à 15 h 57

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Quoting: MauriceRichard1028

I don't see Laine wanting to stay in Columbus but honestly don't totally see him wanting to be back in Winnipeg either. Especially if the rumors of Scheifele and Wheeler edging him out were true.

I think with a change in coaching, plus wheeler admitting he handled the laine situation poorly things would be different. I think it would add a spark to the group as well. Adds some competition at RW which the jets haven’t had lol.

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21 janv. 2022 à 16 h 4

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Quoting: tsyls

I don't follow you there. How was Dubois worth 2 first round picks when he only returned one? I'm not trying to jerk you around, I'm trying to understand how you're valuing here.

Yes, Dubois was an established NHL player and your deal is futures for Laine, but value wise what has Laine done in his 2 seasons in CLB to raise his value?

The Jets traded Laine with 3 seasons of team control left, now he has 1 if I'm remembering correctly, so I just can't see the justification for 3 1st round picks. CLB is under the gun here, they either give him a contract he likes, or he's gone. They're not dealing from a position of strength.

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21 janv. 2022 à 16 h 8

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Quoting: NYR1983

PLD was worth more than a 1st. He was already NHL established and only improving. Laine isn’t even a rental here, RFA still. You will move him after and recoup half of the price you paid.

I don't understand how Dubois was worth more than a 1st when he didn't return more than a first. If we're talking now, I agree, the Jets wouldn't trade him for less, but at the time he returned a first.

The Jets also traded Laine with 3 years of team control left and he now has 1. How does that raise his value?

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21 janv. 2022 à 16 h 13

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Quoting: Windjammer

You know Laine was traded for PLD right? Both with team control like you suggested. Now given they are both 1st round picks that doesn’t mean that’s their value today or at the time of the trade. Do you think NYR or any team could have just sent a 1st to get these guys?!?! Nah, I know you’re smarter than that, it would have been two 1sts and a 2nd bare minimum to get those guys. Now, how much does 3M retention cost?? And the guy is still an RFA which you will move anywhere for a 1st bare minimum.

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21 janv. 2022 à 16 h 13

#10

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Quoting: Windjammer

I see your side and definitely something to factor into the deal. Laine hasn’t raised his value, I feel like it’s likely stayed the same, or dropped due to team control like you said.

As for Dubois, coming off those huge playoff performances he had substantial value, but the start of that year and the torts stuff really dropped his stock. I think he was easily worth 2 1sts. Power forward with proven success in the post season.

Jets can afford to move futures, their window to win is now.

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21 janv. 2022 à 16 h 39

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Quoting: NYR1983

Yeah, that's kind of pie in the sky kind of stuff. He wouldn't be traded for less you say, yet he was. So, how can you say his value was x when all we know for sure is that his value was y?

Yes, retention is worth something, but 3.75 for the remainder of this year doesn't add an extra 1st.

We are also talking a futures based deal here as opposed to an original NHL quality player swap.

So, if we take what you're saying as true that Laine and Dubois were both worth 2 1sts and a 2nd at the time of the trade, then again how is Laine suddenly worth 3 1sts now. He hasn't produced at a stellar rate in CLB, he has less team control now. So, what has increased his value?

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21 janv. 2022 à 16 h 44

#12

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Quoting: tsyls

Yes, I can understand part of your rationale for the offer you made, but as I explained to the other poster above, I just think you're going a little too far to the extreme here.

I was just really trying to understand how you came up with the valuation you did.

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21 janv. 2022 à 16 h 46

#13

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Quoting: Windjammer

I mean it’s hard to speak to someone’s value in terms of 1sts. Because it’s all speculative.

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21 janv. 2022 à 16 h 49

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Quoting: tsyls

I mean it’s hard to speak to someone’s value in terms of 1sts. Because it’s all speculative.

Agreed. It was a fun discussion though.

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21 janv. 2022 à 16 h 56

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Quoting: Windjammer

Agreed. It was a fun discussion though.

Totally, what’s your actual opinion on bringing laine back and what do you think fair value is? I think he’s what the team needs. If the relationship between wheeler and scheifele and laine is okay I think it’s a no brainer.

21 janv. 2022 à 17 h 17

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Quoting: Windjammer

So, to clear things up, I wasn’t on phone calls with GMs during that deal. I’m suggesting his value was minimum that price, it very well could have been much more. Injured Eichel with a higher cap hit and very little teams interested returned more. The actual price could have been three 1sts and a 2nd 🤷🏻‍♂️. But, this was more so a process of explaining how they were never just traded for a 1st or worth that. If you were to trade PLD today 1/2 retained, what would it fetch? Because Laine isn’t much less than that.

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21 janv. 2022 à 17 h 19

#17

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Quoting: tsyls

I wish the Jets never had to trade him and it would be great to have him and Dubois. I just don't see how we can afford him long term. Are you thinking buying out Wheeler? Because we know that isn't going to happen.

I would just fear bringing Laine back would end up with the Jets making sacrifices on defense or elsewhere and the.Jets becoming another version of Toronto, too top heavy.

What we really need is to get lucky with an ELC guy and have them go nuts scoring wise. I know I'm dreaming.

As far as value, I think you're like one 1st to high. I could see 2 of those pieces, since they are all maybes, but I would balk at 3. This of course dependant on who the players actually are and how high the Jets pick ends up being.

21 janv. 2022 à 17 h 25

#18

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Quoting: NYR1983

Okay, I see where you're going. My position is that Laine is now worth a fair bit less than Dubois and less than when the Jets traded him. Based on a 1C being worth much more than a top 6 winger and factoring in production for both after the trades.

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21 janv. 2022 à 17 h 27

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Quoting: Windjammer

Ya I see your point of view. I do however feel that Laine can still be a 40G scorer in a different system

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21 janv. 2022 à 17 h 29

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Quoting: Windjammer

If you bring laine back, you’re essentially moving on from Copp + Dillon/DeMelo and replacing them with elc or below 1 million. I feel like laine could potentially be signed to like a 7x7.75.

21 janv. 2022 à 17 h 33

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Quoting: NYR1983

Ya I see your point of view. I do however feel that Laine can still be a 40G scorer in a different system

I also agree with that. He certainly does have that potential, so it would depend on how each GM sees that.

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21 janv. 2022 à 17 h 44

#22

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Quoting: Windjammer

I also agree with that. He certainly does have that potential, so it would depend on how each GM sees that.

It all comes down to how Jarmo views it. Because at the end of the day he’s setting the market. Of course that price can be brought down due to contract situation, little to no interest at that price. But I assume jarmo knows that laine can be a perennial 40g scorer with some teams.

21 janv. 2022 à 17 h 52

#23