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27 oct. 2021 à 17 h 3
#26
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exo2769
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Quoting: ChiHawk
I agree with requiring constant approval and support from the Sauk nation. That said, I don't have a problem with the logo if they don't and I'm strongly opinionated on that as I'm not Sauk. However, if someone wants to slap my head on a jersey, brand name, building when I die then by all means! Tongue and cheek and I get the difference but point and case.

Regarding the privilege of owning an NHL team, I would say it's a privilege of owning any company especially one in the public eye. You as a diehard fan, are taking this to heart and I get it, but again, try to separate emotion and it's not about the Blackhawks or NHL, it's simply a privilege to own any company no different if it's the Blackhawks, Cubs, or PWC, Deloitte, Earnst & Young, Fidelity...all much larger more international brand names but like the Hawks private owned. Bottom line, unless they committed a crime, which they didn't, they can not be forced to sell. Even the NHL wouldn't be able to impose that as it would be court case that the NHL can't win.

The Wirtz family was built on liquor, Real Estate, Banking and Boxing dating back to the early 1900s. These are not the most ethical industries in the past and there are lots of colorful stories no doubt. However, let's not confuse one discussion with the other and throw the baby out with the bathwater just because. Do we really want the Blackhawks to sell and end up in the hands of possibly a corporate conglomerate or a bunch of shareholders who care nothing about hockey?


Ultimately, I understand what you're saying. I'm not sure a crime was committed, but this investigation is not over. Head's of companies get removed all the time. Papa John and Donald Sterling (Owner of the Clippers) as a better example. They don't have to be forced to sell the team, BUT the NHL can make their franchise have zero value. They can force them out. Create a new expansion team in Chicago and leave the Blackhawks with nothing. There's a fight there, but what legal standing would the Wirtz family have against the continuing breaches of the NHL code of conduct. The reason Sterling sold wasn't because he wanted to sell. It's because he was about to lose all that money.

And as the above in BOLD... While i understand the nimble benefits of having an owner vs a board...those don't really apply here because the President/GM can make any/all moves needed. I don't think the Wirtz family actually cares about hockey. I'm not even saying they need to care. It's a business a lot of owners won't spend money at all because they treat their team like a business. The Green Bay Packers are doing pretty good the last time I checked.
27 oct. 2021 à 17 h 18
#27
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Quoting: exo2769
banks F50marco at whomever will listen capfriendly guys this is a serious topic and forums does not generate conversation like you want it to. Please reconsider sending this post to forums. I'm a firm believer in capfriendly. I'm a firm believe that monitoring the conversation is better than sending it to forums.

Thank You and VERY respectfully, I love this site.

Exo.


Hi Exo, not sure what happened here. Im only seeing this now because you tagged me but Im assuming this was an AGM post originally? Regardless of what happened, I don't believe it can be undone after the fact anyway so there's nothing I can do even If I were to do something.
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27 oct. 2021 à 17 h 25
#28
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Quoting: exo2769
Ultimately, I understand what you're saying. I'm not sure a crime was committed, but this investigation is not over. Head's of companies get removed all the time. Papa John and Donald Sterling (Owner of the Clippers) as a better example. They don't have to be forced to sell the team, BUT the NHL can make their franchise have zero value. They can force them out. Create a new expansion team in Chicago and leave the Blackhawks with nothing. There's a fight there, but what legal standing would the Wirtz family have against the continuing breaches of the NHL code of conduct. The reason Sterling sold wasn't because he wanted to sell. It's because he was about to lose all that money.

And as the above in BOLD... While i understand the nimble benefits of having an owner vs a board...those don't really apply here because the President/GM can make any/all moves needed. I don't think the Wirtz family actually cares about hockey. I'm not even saying they need to care. It's a business a lot of owners won't spend money at all because they treat their team like a business. The Green Bay Packers are doing pretty good the last time I checked.


Heads of companies do get removed all the time and that is why McIdiot and now Bowman both are gone. They were the heads of the company in 2010 and as of yesterday. Rocky Writz, and it's been no secret, was hands off besides the transition period of his Dad to him but large in part, hands off. For that reason, at this point there is no reason to implicate him with the NHL or legally. Part of running a company, is doing your best to enforce policies but ultimately, you do not have control of individuals and the courts and legal system understand that. That is why there are corporate civil cases. Again, think about Facebook and all the lawsuits they are facing right now in this very moment. Now think about the fact they (also own Instagram), provide a platform that is enabled violence, suicide, mental health disorders, riots, etc. Not to mention they are always fighting sexual harassment/abuse cases, discrimination, etc. They literally have blood on their hands. Facebook to me, has done WAY more wrong then the Blackhawks have here. Maybe I'm callous because I consult with large organizations on a regular basis and work for a very large company much bigger then the Blackhawks, but the point is, removing the owners is not the solution UNLESS they are factually proven they were aware and did nothing or worse yet, implicated legally speaking.

The Clippers were a dumpster of a team at the time while the Hawks are 2nd or 3rd most valuable franchise in the league. The league is not going to force the end of the blackhawks especially in uncertain times revenue wise. Can they try to force the Wirtz's out...maybe but they are in for a harrowing legal battle that would take place. Continuing breaches of NHL code of conduct? I'm not following on the continuing breaches part. That said, most of the older hockey teams have a colorful history of accusations of discrimination, verbal abuse, physical abuse, sexual abuse; at least one of those. Football as well. This is not unique to the Blackhawks even though it seems that way in moment. Look what John Gruden was caught doing just recently, to tell me he didn't abuse certain players racially during his tenure? That's a head coach in a much bigger spotlight, bigger money involved, etc. Point is, not that it's right, but these types of breach of ethics are common in all sports. Penn State...remember that case? Disgusting yet Penn State still operates as a college and still has sports teams.

Green Bay is a unique situation in a very small town. Mark Cuban is a unique situation. The normal situation is Reinsdorf; how would you like buying out the Wirtz's?
27 oct. 2021 à 17 h 26
#29
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Quoting: F50marco
Hi Exo, not sure what happened here. Im only seeing this now because you tagged me but Im assuming this was an AGM post originally? Regardless of what happened, I don't believe it can be undone after the fact anyway so there's nothing I can do even If I were to do something.


This also happened to one of my AGM's yesterday. Someone in the moderator team must be moving these AGM's to the forums.
27 oct. 2021 à 17 h 28
#30
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exo2769
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Quoting: ChiHawk
Heads of companies do get removed all the time and that is why McIdiot and now Bowman both are gone. They were the heads of the company in 2010 and as of yesterday. Rocky Writz, and it's been no secret, was hands off besides the transition period of his Dad to him but large in part, hands off. For that reason, at this point there is no reason to implicate him with the NHL or legally. Part of running a company, is doing your best to enforce policies but ultimately, you do not have control of individuals and the courts and legal system understand that. That is why there are corporate civil cases. Again, think about Facebook and all the lawsuits they are facing right now in this very moment. Now think about the fact they (also own Instagram), provide a platform that is enabled violence, suicide, mental health disorders, riots, etc. Not to mention they are always fighting sexual harassment/abuse cases, discrimination, etc. They literally have blood on their hands. Facebook to me, has done WAY more wrong then the Blackhawks have here. Maybe I'm callous because I consult with large organizations on a regular basis and work for a very large company much bigger then the Blackhawks, but the point is, removing the owners is not the solution UNLESS they are factually proven they were aware and did nothing or worse yet, implicated legally speaking.

The Clippers were a dumpster of a team at the time while the Hawks are 2nd or 3rd most valuable franchise in the league. The league is not going to force the end of the blackhawks especially in uncertain times revenue wise. Can they try to force the Wirtz's out...maybe but they are in for a harrowing legal battle that would take place. Continuing breaches of NHL code of conduct? I'm not following on the continuing breaches part. That said, most of the older hockey teams have a colorful history of accusations of discrimination, verbal abuse, physical abuse, sexual abuse; at least one of those. Football as well. This is not unique to the Blackhawks even though it seems that way in moment. Look what John Gruden was caught doing just recently, to tell me he didn't abuse certain players racially during his tenure? That's a head coach in a much bigger spotlight, bigger money involved, etc. Point is, not that it's right, but these types of breach of ethics are common in all sports. Penn State...remember that case? Disgusting yet Penn State still operates as a college and still has sports teams.

Green Bay is a unique situation in a very small town. Mark Cuban is a unique situation. The normal situation is Reinsdorf; how would you like buying out the Wirtz's?


Hard Pass on Reinsdorf. I get it. CEO's do get removed, but to your point owners much harder. The other NHL owners probably do think the juice would be worth the squeeze.
27 oct. 2021 à 18 h 37
#31
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Quoting: exo2769
Hard Pass on Reinsdorf. I get it. CEO's do get removed, but to your point owners much harder. The other NHL owners probably do think the juice would be worth the squeeze.


I think it's important, again we do no know factually whether Wirtz knew or not, but the history of events that happened this year points to possibly he didn't know. Think about it, he fires a few people, brings in his son, then hires a new President of Hockey Ops outside the org, then the crap hits the fan. To me that suggests, he found out about all this and said "boy, I need to get more involved and make changes". Bowman gets promoted because in theory he did what he was supposed to do and that is bring to the attention of McIdiot. That said, the pressure over the summer with the media just became too much to the point that they went a step further and probably said, "Stan, by policy you did what you were supposed to do, but when you noticed the right things weren't being done, you should have stepped up and brought it to us". I'm just pontificating but the point is, just as easy as it is for me to jump to this conclusion, it's easy to jump to the polar opposite and say Wirtz knew all along and he should sell. Neither of them are based on any facts though.
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27 oct. 2021 à 20 h 42
#32
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Quoting: ChiHawk
This also happened to one of my AGM's yesterday. Someone in the moderator team must be moving these AGM's to the forums.


No clue but If its a valid AGM, it shouldn't have been moved. However If the sole purpose was to have a conversation about the Hawks allegations and not to do an "AGM", than I understand why it was moved.
 
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