arizona wants the kuemper return for Dvorak. Gonna be a massive overpay from montreal imo

Thanks for the read. It was a fresh take on those players.

IMO KK's shoulders skills will improve with years. Im far more concerned with his balance during board battles. For a big guy, he always end up on his butt...

As for Dvorak, the author argue that he is underrated because his offensive numbers improved when he played with quality wingers (Hall and Garland) , but it wasn't an overwelming result neither. I highly doubt we could see an upgrade in his offensive numbers playing in Montreal (w/ Hoffman and Gally?).

You are welcome! I am glad you liked it.
I don't watch the Habs enough to comment on specific details like body positions or balance of the players, so I can't really contribute to this argument. I trust that you have far more knowledge than me here so you are probably right.

As for Dvorak, I think the author is talking more about how he impacted the game when playing with two more offensive players. They had elite offensive impact together generating scoring chances, playing in the offensive zone and generally have a more positive impact on the game than the rest of the team would have. That doesn't always result in an actual goal or an assist, hence why it maybe doesn't look like he produced a lot of offense. He has experience of playing fringe 1C numbers on a very bad team but has put up very solid underlying numbers. I think he would only improve by going to MTL. Will he score 30 goals and 65 points? Most likely not. But he will probably score around 20 and have 50 points which isn't bad at all for someone that can eat tough matchups and play all situations. A Suzuki-Dvorak combo up the middle is much better than people think. I am not sold on Evans or Poehling becoming 3C's so maybe the Habs could look for another C further down the road to complement the two top guys.

Its not just Dvoraks value, because I think he and his contract are worth a bit more than a "projected" later round 1st and 3rd, its also about need and fit.

Theres few Number 2 Centers available and Dvorak has the potential to be a better fit and production than Dandanault at an excellent cap hit of 4.5mil for 4 more years.

Need? Well MTL looks stocked on the wings (especially if Drouin can come back and play), but the center position looks very weak. (Evans, Pacquette and Poehling SHOULD be a nice 3-4th center, but none of them are 2Cs).

Montreal can afford this deal: salary and picks wise, but more importantly, they NEED this player (or similar of which there are few....Yanni Gourde (but then that'd have to be an overpayment too).

I'd go a far ways to trying to get him say: MTL 1st, MTL 3rd, CAR 3rd and a good prospect like Primeau or a young guy with potential like Lehtonen. (even at that MTL still has a pick in every round in 2022 = 9 in total and that 4LW can be perreault or pacquette or evans)

That's the thing though, 20G/50P is good expectations for Dvorak but would be low expectations for KK.

Obviously, I think the OS will be matched.

Thanks for sharing the articles they were good reads especially under the current circumstances.

KK might not have the same shouldering speed Suzuki has at this point in his game, but KK does have a size advantage and as he matures and gets stronger I think it will be less of an issue.

As for Dvorak, he's a solid player and for the right price I'd take him... he absolutely fits a need for MTL right now as a 2 way 2nd line C, but also a left handed PP bumper which I think is gonna be needed for the Hoffman unit this year. That said, as others have pointed out Arizona is negotiating from a position of strength (Dvorak is under contract for 4 years they don't have to trade him) and MTL will be negotiating from a position of weakness (they need C). ARZ will probably look for an overpay, so if I was MTL I would just sign Tyler Bozak as a one year solution/contingency, and then see what Evans, Poehling, and Drouin can do with an opportunity.

KK really didn't perform well for MTL last year, so it wouldn't be unthinkable for Drouin to replace him in an offensive role with Hoffman and Anderson (who he is currently living with) for example while one of Poehling, Evans, or Bozak replace Danault on the checking line with Lehkonen and Gallagher. Worst case scenerio Drouin has to be moved back to wing and one of Poehling or Evans get the chance to play in a more offensive role.

If all fails, at least it buys MTL some time in negotiations or maybe they even wait until free agency next season to address the issue.

I share the opinion of the author, that KK might have been brought over too early for his development. Especially as he was selected 3rd overall with the idea of him becoming a 1C. Suzuki was a nice ''surprise'' as a legit 1C prospect. I think most people had him as a 2C, so that eases the burden a bit by KK being fine as a #2. However, my issue is that he has kind of played to ''survive'' in the NHL in his first 3 years. I think that seriously decreases the chances of the player improving his offensive fundamentals. I am aware that other players have developed a lot after having mediocre careers during their ELC's and KK could absolutely explode. My issue is that he has never just looked that comfortable yet and while he has been fine in the NHL as a top 9 player, he certainly ain't a top 6C right now, 3 years after being drafted. Maybe with how KK has developed, what Dvorak is now is what KK's new ceiling is. Not that it is anything wrong with that, but maybe it's not that stupid after all to go after someone you 100% know is a legit 2C on a great contract for the next 4 years.

I can see MTL matching it as it wouldn't be a great look letting your third overall pick from three years ago leave in such a manner, especially when he was considered an of the board type of pick. My personal opinion is that they should take the compensation and move on and learn from the experience.

Thank you! I am glad you found it worthwhile.
I agree with everything you have said, especially with a guy like Drouin coming back being hungry. I think MTL should let KK go and take the compensation. Whether they go in for Dvorak or keep the picks for potentially someone else, I am not sure. I think that all depends on what MTL's plan is with the likes of Evans and Poehling. Like you said, Drouin could get a chance in the middle as well. He had his most productive season in MTL playing up the middle so that is always something.

Hey guys if you find this type of stuff cool and informative. Read this if you guys want. I bet it will give you a new perspective on the game of hockey.
https://www.capfriendly.com/armchair-gm/team/2759863