Jones is sh*t. Most overrated player in the league.

For once the value is there for TK BUT the Flyers are also in win now mode so trading TK for this doesn't make sense. Holl is nothing more than a fringe 2nd pairing D man which we already have.

Holl is stay at home defenceman bud, which you need in Philly. Philly literally have offensive minded d man and nobody who can pair with a Provorov and just sit back. You need a Holl to just sit back and let Provorov do him this similar to Marc Methot with Karlsson.

Also terrible trade by Toronto for Jones. Marner is Jones, Jenner, Foudy and probably their 1st (5th overall). Marner is a top 10 forward in this league at minimum.

if Jones signs 8x8 we RIOT. Wouldn't pay him a penny over 6 (even though he will get more)... Also Spezza cannot play on the first line, he's great and we all love him but chill

We need a capable top pairing guy to play with Provy, not a fringe 2nd pairing guy...bud

Lol then you don’t watch Justin Holl. Holl was the guy tracking all the top players in the North Division this year but ok. Show your lack of knowledge on other teams

He can't play 25+ minutes like Provy! He is not a top pairing D man and if you believe he is then you are the one who lacks knowledge. Take your blinders off...oh wait, you can't because you are a Leafs fan

Perry not coming to the team he beat lmao, he's smarter than that

Holl average was 22 minutes a game and in the playoffs almost 25 mins. Again shows you lack of knowledge.

PS. Toronto was top 5 of top 10 in every defensive metric this year.

No team is going to give a 7th for Engvall, let alone a 5th ffs

Interesting take since he only played 21:28 on average in the playoffs.

49.8 CF% Reg Season and 46.4% playoffs.

Also, remind me again how the playoffs went for you?

Lol remind me when did you make the playoffs this year?

Bud you do understand corsi effect the opponent you play. For eg. MTL offensive scheme is throw everything on the net no matter how low of a chance of it going it or being blocked. Holl held the expected goals in his favour when on the ice btw so that negates your point.

Ya so when he is on the ice, they spend more time in their own zone...good way to win hockey games!

Why don’t you check his d-zone starts instead of trying use a stat to tell a different story.

50% so what? Provy starts in his D zone 56% of the time...so how is that gonna help Holl? The guy is 100% not a top pairing D man.

1. McDavid
2. Matthews
3. Mackinnon
4. Draisiatl
5. Kucherov
6. Barkov
7. Marchand
8. Kane
9. Crosby
10. Panarin

All 10 of those guys are better than Marner right now. Then add guys like Rantanen, Point, Pasta who are on Marner's level or close to it but come in at a cheaper contract.

Holl is a legit top 4 D-man and excels at his shutdown role, as long as you don't need him to put up points you'll never have an issue with him as your 4D. I do think in terms of rebalancing the Leafs if they can acquire a Jones or Hamilton it can allow them to move Holl + for a top 6 forward if they're insistent on not moving any of the core 4.

He's horrible defensively to be playing on either of the bottom 6 lines but he does still bring offence despite his age, load managing Spezza can be an option as well with guys like Brooks, Anderson, etc.

It's like Leaf fans are unaware of what good defensemen look like, did Jones have a bad year? Sure. Was he a consensus top 3-5 D-man in the league prior to last season? Yes

If you're going to compete with teams like the Avs with Makar or the Bolts with Hedman you're going to need someone a lot better than Rielly to be your best D-man (I think Rielly is a 1D but he's more in the 20-30 range, at his peak a couple seasons ago 10-20 but he's regressed despite having a better defensive core around him). Jones allows them to move on from Rielly if he won't sign a team-friendly deal (Sandin would replace his role in the roster above in 2022-23 while Liljegren steps into a bottom pairing role that same year replacing Sandin from 2021-22.

Well the Flyers don't need a 2nd pairing guy, they need a top pairing guy. I highly, highly doubt the Leafs are in on Hamilton or Jones.

I see what you're saying. Yes, I'd agree he's a top 4; but what Dangles is saying we need a guy who is on average a 1-2, and at worst 3-4. Holl right now is a consistently excellent 3-4, who can spot play 1-2 as needed; but he'd need to be on top of his game playing lights out to be a regular every game 1-2.

To be honest; I wouldn't mind having him just to balance out the LD/RD situation. It'd be an upgrade on Myers if he doesn't turn his game around in year 3, and would allow us to bump Braun down to the 5-6 where he would be most effective given his age and skill.

You do realize most of Marners contract has been paid out. Owners want deadcap. After the start of free agency Marners is owed only 25 million over the next 4 years…

That’s a cheaper contract than Pasta, Point and Rantanen. Nice try bud for offering terrible value for Marner.

At the end of the day there's a reason you post here instead of working for an NHL team. Who knows what they can do. They can easily move out Kerfoot once his bonus is paid, Soup and Engvall to free up a decent amount of space.

Another thing to account for is who his partner would be on the Flyers. He's pretty much played with Muzzin in his career as the main shutdown pairing however as good as Muzzin is Provorov is better.

Which of those forwards is Marner better than like you said "top 10 forward".

McDavid? No Chance
Mackinnon or Matthews? ditto

Draisaitl? Similar talents but Drai is the better goalscorer by far, makes him more dangerous

Kucherov? LOL

Kane? Almost outscored Marner on a team where he outscored the 2nd leading scorer of the hawks by 10 points and 3rd leading scorer of the Hawks by 30...Marner didn't even have the highest ppg on his own line.

Barkov? Nope

Panarin, Crosby, Marchand? Nope