Switch Amirov for Sandin and I’d do it. Detroit already has some good young talent coming up soon Zadina, Raymond, and Berggren. What they need is a LD or C.

Bertuzzi is not being traded. I could see Mantha traded as he is an riddle. Not consistent and takes to many plays off.

Toronto says Sandin is off limits, well nobody is giving up a top 6 forward for the likes of Engvall or Dermott. The 1st round pick will be in the high 20's or even in the 30 or 31 range depending on the final rankings. The probelm the players the Leafs want to trade are not the kind of players rebuilding clubs want. Kerfoot, Engvall, Dermott just do not move the needle. To get quality you need to trade quality and that is the problem. Many times in this site Leaf fans say the top 6 and these players are off limits, well they happen to be the players rebuilding teams would ask for in trades. Nobody is gifting better player for scraps. This is not to bag on Leaf fan's , just a commentary of what it will.take to get the likes of Bertuzzi, Ekhlom and others.

Bertuzzi is not being traded. I could see Mantha traded as he is an riddle. Not consistent and takes to many plays off.

Toronto says Sandin is off limits, well nobody is giving up a top 6 forward for the likes of Engvall or Dermott. The 1st round pick will be in the high 20's or even in the 30 or 31 range depending on the final rankings. The probelm the players the Leafs want to trade are not the kind of players rebuilding clubs want. Kerfoot, Engvall, Dermott just do not move the needle. To get quality you need to trade quality and that is the problem. Many times in this site Leaf fans say the top 6 and these players are off limits, well they happen to be the players rebuilding teams would ask for in trades. Nobody is gifting better player for scraps. This is not to bag on Leaf fan's , just a commentary of what it will.take to get the likes of Bertuzzi, Ekhlom and others.

I'm sure TOR fans will shat on me for this but if I'm Detroit, bertuzzi starts with Sandin.

So what you are telling me is that teams don't view Robertson amirov liljegren and first round picks as valuable assets, to me that's a little ridiculous. Those are the prospects available along with the picks. Sometimes when a rebuilding team needs assets to rebuild they aren't in the strongest bargaining position. If you can't take the teams absolute best prospect you take the next best and if you don't have that mentality you will not be successful in building a team.

1st Wings have several prospects, what they need a is a LHD. They ha e several forwards in the pipeline, Raymond, Berrgren, Zadina, Rasmussen, Veleno, Soderbloom and defensemen like Sieder, Toumisto and to a lesser extent McIssacs.

Bertuzzi is still a RFA after this year and rebuilding teams rarely trade good young players for younger unknown players and picks. Bertuzzi is a very good player and part of the rebuild not an asset that is expendable. Generally, rebuilding teams trade older players with little term and maybe salary retention. Rebuilding teams trading young RFA players for younger players just make the rebuilding team a feeder team for other teams and prolongs the rebuild.

Leafs pass, it is reported that Sandin is the only untouchable when it comes to this deadline. They won't move him unless they resign Mo. But if they resign Mo then I find it less likely they move him as he is cheap. All in all our top prospect is not going to be dealt for a player who will likely end up on our third line, it would be for a legit top line forward.

I'm not trying to be rude at all when I say this, but the wings have one of the lowest ranked prospect pools in the NHL, I think if you can improve it at any position you need too.

That’s fine, I was merely stating moving Mo/Bert would be to address an area of weakness LD/C. If it doesn’t then it’s less motivation to pull the trigger. I’m not sure where you got third line unless it’s based on chemistry as he’d be your third best winger. The Athletic article about Dubas and the TDL said he would be open to trading a top prospect and he will explore every opportunity. I don’t see where Dubas specifically said Sandin is off limits.

According to whom? Every professional scouting service that publishes rankings has us in the top 5. Wheeler came out on a DRW podcast and even explain his. Please explain this speculation.

I was more hinting towards chemistry but Bertuzzi would likely be our 4th best winger behind Hyman. As for Sandin Dubas recent comments would lean towards Sandin being a part of the team come playoffs or next season.

I was more hinting towards chemistry but Bertuzzi would likely be our 4th best winger behind Hyman. As for Sandin Dubas recent comments would lean towards Sandin being a part of the team come playoffs or next season.

I think they have 3 maybe 4 top prospects the rest are pickums. I should have been slightly more clear, in correlation to the amount of picks they have had over the last 3 years (one of the highest in the NHL) they should have made out better on there picks turning into high quality assets, and I'm not saying the leafs are all that great right now either but the two teams are in completely different positions. For instance let's say the wings were in the leafs position in the standings the three prospects that would be available are seider veleno and wallinder, and as a wings fan you would likely say the first two aren't available because they have the highest upside for there respective positions and then you would try too pedal your B prospects. The leafs aren't even doing that. They are offering top quality guys in multiples... Not just one.

I think they have 3 maybe 4 top prospects the rest are pickums. I should have been slightly more clear, in correlation to the amount of picks they have had over the last 3 years (one of the highest in the NHL) they should have made out better on there picks turning into high quality assets, and I'm not saying the leafs are all that great right now either but the two teams are in completely different positions. For instance let's say the wings were in the leafs position in the standings the three prospects that would be available are seider veleno and wallinder, and as a wings fan you would likely say the first two aren't available because they have the highest upside for there respective positions and then you would try too pedal your B prospects. The leafs aren't even doing that. They are offering top quality guys in multiples... Not just one.

I'm not trying to be rude at all when I say this, but the wings have one of the lowest ranked prospect pools in the NHL, I think if you can improve it at any position you need too.

I think they have 3 maybe 4 top prospects the rest are pickums. I should have been slightly more clear, in correlation to the amount of picks they have had over the last 3 years (one of the highest in the NHL) they should have made out better on there picks turning into high quality assets, and I'm not saying the leafs are all that great right now either but the two teams are in completely different positions. For instance let's say the wings were in the leafs position in the standings the three prospects that would be available are seider veleno and wallinder, and as a wings fan you would likely say the first two aren't available because they have the highest upside for there respective positions and then you would try too pedal your B prospects. The leafs aren't even doing that. They are offering top quality guys in multiples... Not just one.

What source are you referencing? Again most pundits have Wings in the top half of prospect rankings.

I think you make fair points and I understand the perspective. But similar to the reply, I have not really read that the Wings system is rated that high. Now obviously rankings are subjective- and publications/experts value certain players over others, some value depth and likelihood of playing over ceiling- but from what I have seen their system is not that strong based on where the team has been in recent years. It's why I fall on the original point that the organization should still be stockpiling assets and trading the mid age guys who's impact will be lower when they are ready to make the playoffs.

So you say, but pundits who do this for a living say different. You could be right, no offense I read several sources who say differently. Yes will.all the prospects pan out, of course not, we both know that, but to say most are pickers is opinion, based only on your definition. Yzerman proved , whether by luck or just good scouting, can draft well. If what you say is they should take more picks and propsects for proven players makes no sense. You defeat your own arguement. If the cupboard is bare then why give him more bullets just to waste them.

Again, I have stated on here many times, teams in a rebuild need to draw a line in the sand and start from there. If we trade Mantha, Bertuzzi and Hronek for futures and they pan out or look like they are planning out, teams in the next 4 to 5 years will say, you need to rebuild and take picks and younger prospects. It creates a cycle or never ending rebuild. Wings become a feeder system for other clubs. Not truly a NHL team.

Are the Wings down, yes no question. Have they hit rock bottom, I hope so, but I beleive so and now it is up to Yzerman to guide the team forward.

Will Bertuzzi or other young players like Mantha, Zadina, Hronek or Larkin be dealt, maybe but they are not being traded for younger players who have proved nothing for the same position. They will trade them to plug holes where we have lack or prospect talent.

Sandin probably is not getting traded, I understand, but the Wings will want what they want or they will pass. Some on this post make it like Wings have no choice, and that is just arrogance.

I can see an argument for Hyman but ultimately Bertuzzi has achieved more at a younger age and still has two seasons with higher production than Hyman while still being 4ish years younger.


So again, Detroit is a top 5 prospect pool now but according to you in the previous 3 drafts they sucked? That doesn’t even make sense nor judging prospects a year or two after their draft. Yzerman has only been here for 2 but I’ll just point out the three drafts. Zadina (top 6 winger with top line potential) graduated, Berggren (top 6 winger tearing up SHL), Veleno (mid 6 center prospect looking good on a terrible SHL team), McIsaac (LD defensive D thats had injury issues with possible second pairing potential), Seider (arguably the best defense prospect not in the NHL and setting SHL records), Tuomisto (NCAA defensemen with a ton of tools to love), Wallinder is similar to Tuomisto but SHL bound, Lucas Raymond (first line winger potential), and Neiderbach (mid six potential skilled center). That’s just looking at the past three years and couple rounds while having the worst lottery luck in that span and you’re looking at judging non-first rounders within a couple years of a draft especially defensemen, jeez that’s grasping at straws backpedaling. If my team wanted a proven NHL player and we were in a position to contend then yeah I’d give up futures to help my team win a cup...

What source are you referencing? Again most pundits have Wings in the top half of prospect rankings.



So you say, but pundits who do this for a living say different. You could be right, no offense I read several sources who say differently. Yes will.all the prospects pan out, of course not, we both know that, but to say most are pickers is opinion, based only on your definition. Yzerman proved , whether by luck or just good scouting, can draft well. If what you say is they should take more picks and propsects for proven players makes no sense. You defeat your own arguement. If the cupboard is bare then why give him more bullets just to waste them.

Again, I have stated on here many times, teams in a rebuild need to draw a line in the sand and start from there. If we trade Mantha, Bertuzzi and Hronek for futures and they pan out or look like they are planning out, teams in the next 4 to 5 years will say, you need to rebuild and take picks and younger prospects. It creates a cycle or never ending rebuild. Wings become a feeder system for other clubs. Not truly a NHL team.

Are the Wings down, yes no question. Have they hit rock bottom, I hope so, but I beleive so and now it is up to Yzerman to guide the team forward.

Will Bertuzzi or other young players like Mantha, Zadina, Hronek or Larkin be dealt, maybe but they are not being traded for younger players who have proved nothing for the same position. They will trade them to plug holes where we have lack or prospect talent.

Sandin probably is not getting traded, I understand, but the Wings will want what they want or they will pass. Some on this post make it like Wings have no choice, and that is just arrogance.

Ah Raymond I knew I was forgetting one, and prospects are players not in the NHL so zadina doesn't count here. As for the others Toronto has extremely similar picks doing the same thing. What I'm saying is the top pedigree picks that's it not the fringe top end talent. In relation to amount of picks they have had they aren't bringing as much out of those picks. And I'm not saying it's Yzerman I think he is a good gm for sure I think it was the two years before Yzerman that hurt their prospect pool. I guess it's a difference in opinion. Also Hyman is only two years older. I agree Bertuzzi has a bit more production but Hyman is the literal complete player that needs to be cloned for science.

I said Zadina was graduated and you were the one that said the last three drafts so I just went through them. I’m not in love with the prior drafts from Holland & Wright especially 2017 and the others were mid to late round picks so not exactly working with blue chippers but they did snag young roster players outside the first (eg Bertuzzi, Hronek) that exceeded their draft slot and are young enough for Yzerman’s rebuild.

Hyman is a good two way player but the same is said about Bertuzzi. He’s gritty, tough in front of the net, clutch, and plays a complete two way game. Which is why I said it’s arguable between the two. If you want to clone anyone it should be Matthews.