Here are all the players listed above and their 5v5 GF% rel from the past 2 years:
Crosby: +11.03
O'Reilly: +10.99
Aho: +9.95
Point: +9.69
Draisaitl: +9.58
MacKinnon: +9.07
McDavid: +8.88
Bergeron: +8.74
Couterier: +7.81
Eichel: +7.64
Barkov: +6.76
Zibanejad: +5.96
Matthews: +2.56
Scheifele: +1.70
Tavares: +1.66
Toews: +1.45
Malkin: -0.75
Stamkos: -1.30
Some observations:
- Draisaitl and McDavid are so far above the others offensively they're in a different class completely. MacKinnon is the only one within the same hemisphere. All 3 guys have among the best positive impact on goal differential in the league (GF% rel), these guys should rank in the top-3 on any reasonable list.
- I thought hard about putting MacKinnon above Draisaitl due to the McDavid effect, but ultimately decided against it for several reasons: he isn't ahead of Draisaitl in any of the metrics listed above, Draisaitl actually scored MORE away from McDavid than with him last year, there are 5 guys on the ice at any time and MacKinnon plays on a much better team leading to better QoT (as seen in the lower IPP number), and the differences in P/GP are not insignificant. Draisaitl had a greater positive impact on his team over the 2-year span, too.
- An argument can be made for Crosby in the top-3, but injuries are stunting his overall production, which slowed year-over-year. Still, best in class GF% rel and 4th best P/GP should have him easily in 4th place.
- Let the Matthews v Eichel controversy continue. They're pretty even offensively but Eichel's much better GF% impact swayed me.
- Malkin came back with a VERY strong campaign in 19-20, proving he absolutely belongs in the top-10 still. His GF% rel numbers look weak, but that was largely due to a poor (by these standards) 2018-19 season. His offense (P/GP, IPP) put him above Matthews for me, but wasn't enough to overcome the lead in GF% rel that Eichel has.
- Zibanejad makes a case for himself. I didn't think he'd be anywhere close to a top-10 spot, but with greater offensive impact than Aho and Barkov and with a competitive overall impact, he belongs. He drives play better than those two also.
- Aho has better numbers than a bunch of these guys, putting him in a bottom-5 spot shouldn't be controversial. Same with Barkov.
- Stamkos plays wing a bunch so I'm not sure he should be considered here. You can see the positive affects of playing a lot of minutes with Point and Kucherov in the first 2 charts above. Weak GF% rel though.
- Speaking of Point, offensively he benefits from playing with Kucherov (his really low IPP in chart #1 speaks to this), but he also adds a lot to the line defensively and he has the 10th most goals of all NHL centers. Just misses the list, I think all ten of these guys would do better in his situation.
- I'm not seeing any justification for having Couterier on this list. He's decent defensively but doesn't provide near enough offense to be in the running IMO.
- O'Reilly is in the same position as Couterier, but his defensive impact is better. I really wanted to include him for his outstanding GF% rel number, but I just couldn't justify putting him ahead of either Barkov or Aho. He needs more offense.
- These numbers don't show Scheifele as deserving of a top-10 spot. He's decent offensively but isn't driving play like most of these guys, and isn't great defensively.
matthews has more 5v5 goals than any player in the NHL since 16-17
was tied for second in scoring as a rookie (4 off the richard), regularly scores at a 40-45 goal pace, and this year was on pace for 55 goals
basically one of the best goal scorers in the NHL not named ovechkin and he's just turned 23
Yes, he is, no question. Over the past 2 years he has only 9 fewer goals than Draisaitl! That's high level stuff... he even ties Draisaitl in goals per game, tied for 3rd in the league. Unfortunately where he falls down is overall offensive creation, his assist rate (A/GP) over the past 2 years is 64th in the league.
If you look at 5v5 A/60, he's 135th in the league, tied with Hyman, Kase, Giordano and Cirelli. Malkin is 1st.
You should watch Edmonton sometimes, its really not as bad as you make it out to be. Crosby just isn't quite good enough to crack the top 3. No shame in that, he's 33 years old now. I'm a big fan, but I can't justify him above any of the top-3.
I actually did watch edm a bit bc I liked watching fire wagon end-to-end, hockey. there was still not much defense....
in terms of scoring trophies or putting up alot of points, Sid won't compete with those guys. but he doesn't need to. PIT has depth, and Sid just needs to keep driving play as long as possible. He's still #1 for me until someone else learns how to win in the playoffs and play D.
Sid first still? Uh no, and I really really like Sid. Sid is probably 3rd. Or are you trying to say those 3 are interchangeable? Also Malkin is in the third tier with Zib, Aho and Barkov.
did you see any Geno highlights from last year. he played the most complete (while still dominant offensively) game of his career. remember he always gets the lower D pairs and lesser wings as he had his whole career. Geno remains one of the games most underrated.
But Mr. 101 is still score and fire.
did you see any Geno highlights from last year. he played the most complete (while still dominant offensively) game of his career. remember he always gets the lower D pairs and lesser wings as he had his whole career. Geno remains one of the games most underrated.
But Mr. 101 is still score and fire.
Oh he’s great but is he really still on par with Matthews and Eichel?
Oh he’s great but is he really still on par with Matthews and Eichel?
when Geno is on he can still take over the game. see the pens 8-6 comeback win against Vancouver last year. we dominated the whole game except both murray/jarry were pretty bad....the pens came back down 6-3. I don't think he's really lost a figurative step either...even at 34 and playing with a kind of injured elbow for the last few years.... I mean even though he's had lesser players to play with he's still been great. look what he's done with pretty meh wingers... then he finally get's Guentzel when Sid was out, rust broke out alongside him and he looks like the geno of old... last season I say yes he was as good at they were. next season IDK. he's getting up there for sure. if AM and JE put together Geno-level careers I think TOR and BUF would be very happy.
Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. Your uninformed opinion isn't going to change my informed opinion.
Show your work please.
All right. So, oboiusly I'm not going to tell you MacKinnon is better than McDavid at offence. But at defence, Mackinnon is better. Mackinnons CF% last season was 60, and McDavid's was 55.8.
when Geno is on he can still take over the game. see the pens 8-6 comeback win against Vancouver last year. we dominated the whole game except both murray/jarry were pretty bad....the pens came back down 6-3. I don't think he's really lost a figurative step either...even at 34 and playing with a kind of injured elbow for the last few years.... I mean even though he's had lesser players to play with he's still been great. look what he's done with pretty meh wingers... then he finally get's Guentzel when Sid was out, rust broke out alongside him and he looks like the geno of old... last season I say yes he was as good at they were. next season IDK. he's getting up there for sure. if AM and JE put together Geno-level careers I think TOR and BUF would be very happy.
I think these are all good points. Yes, if AM plays like Malkin for his career, I would be very happy.
All right. So, oboiusly I'm not going to tell you MacKinnon is better than McDavid at offence. But at defence, Mackinnon is better. Mackinnons CF% last season was 60, and McDavid's was 55.8.
Wasn't quite done.
Quoting: Lyle_Bubas
matthews has more 5v5 goals than any player in the NHL since 16-17
was tied for second in scoring as a rookie (4 off the richard), regularly scores at a 40-45 goal pace, and this year was on pace for 55 goals
basically one of the best goal scorers in the NHL not named ovechkin and he's just turned 23
He's had better linemates most of the time, but Draisaitl is pushing McDavid for the #1 spot IMO. There's no doubt in my mind that he's most certainly the #2 in the league. He's absolutely the most dominant player in the game from the halfway point last year until now.
Saskleaf a aimé ceci.
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