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Trading Nylander

Créé par: I4evrblue
Équipe: 2020-21 Maple Leafs de Toronto
Date de création initiale: 25 sept. 2020
Publié: 25 sept. 2020
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
31 750 000 $
31 750 000 $
2800 000 $
UFAANSCAP HIT
2800 000 $
78 500 000 $
1750 000 $
1750 000 $
1750 000 $
Transactions
1.
TOR
  1. Choix de 3e ronde en 2021 (SJS)
  2. Choix de 5e ronde en 2022 (SJS)
2.
TOR
  1. Foote, Nolan
  2. Hayden, John [Droits de RFA]
  3. Zacha, Pavel
  4. Choix de 1e ronde en 2020 (ARI)
3.
ARI
  1. Choix de 2e ronde en 2020 (TOR)
  2. Choix de 2e ronde en 2021 (TOR)
Rachats de contrats
Transactions impliquant une retenue de salaire
Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
2020
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2021
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2022
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TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2281 500 000 $80 648 250 $0 $0 $851 750 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
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3 500 000 $3 500 000 $
AG, C, AD
UFA - 3
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11 640 250 $11 640 250 $
C
UFA - 4
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10 903 000 $10 903 000 $
AD
UFA - 5
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821 667 $821 667 $
AG, AD
RFA - 4
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11 000 000 $11 000 000 $
C, AG
NMC
UFA - 5
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2 250 000 $2 250 000 $
AD, AG
M-NTC
UFA - 1
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1 533 333 $1 533 333 $
AG, AD
UFA - 2
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1 750 000 $1 750 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 2
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1 250 000 $1 250 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 2
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750 000 $750 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 1
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2 250 000 $2 250 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 2
800 000 $800 000 $
C
UFA - 1
800 000 $800 000 $
C, AG, AD
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
5 625 000 $5 625 000 $
DG
NMC
UFA - 4
8 500 000 $8 500 000 $
DD
UFA - 7
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
5 000 000 $5 000 000 $
G
M-NTC
UFA - 1
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5 000 000 $5 000 000 $
DG
M-NTC
UFA - 2
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2 000 000 $2 000 000 $
DD
M-NTC
UFA - 3
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1 650 000 $1 650 000 $
G
UFA - 2
750 000 $750 000 $
DG
UFA - 2
Logo de Maple Leafs de Toronto
925 000 $925 000 $
DG
UFA - 1
750 000 $750 000 $
DG
UFA - 1

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25 sept. 2020 à 14 h 30
#1
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nope, that dont get you Nylander
25 sept. 2020 à 14 h 35
#2
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Quoting: JaredOfLondon
nope, that dont get you Nylander


Add more then
I'd take that deal if I'm Dubas
Future LW, 1st in a deep draft, 3C with upside and a dose of toughness while opening up cap space to sign a top 4 RD..... yip, sounds good to me.
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25 sept. 2020 à 14 h 50
#3
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Quoting: I4evrblue
Add more then
I'd take that deal if I'm Dubas
Future LW, 1st in a deep draft, 3C with upside and a dose of toughness while opening up cap space to sign a top 4 RD..... yip, sounds good to me.


How about this, take out the guy who peaks as a 3C who is terrible at defence, remove the old crappy 4th liner the leafs dont need. And then add add a top 4D and the leafs might look at it.
Cap space is not a value asset in a trade when the player you are trading is on a very good contract.
this trade sucks for toronto
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25 sept. 2020 à 14 h 58
#4
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Quoting: JaredOfLondon
How about this, take out the guy who peaks as a 3C who is terrible at defence, remove the old crappy 4th liner the leafs dont need. And then add add a top 4D and the leafs might look at it.
Cap space is not a value asset in a trade when the player you are trading is on a very good contract.
this trade sucks for toronto


How about this, leave in the 23 year old 3C that has 2C upside, leave in the 4th liner that would add an element of grit that the Leafs 100% DO need, and then pull the trigger because cap space is most certainly a valuable asset when your blueline is as terrible as the Leafs is.
This trade works in multiple ways for Toronto
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25 sept. 2020 à 15 h 1
#5
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Quoting: I4evrblue
How about this, leave in the 23 year old 3C that has 2C upside, leave in the 4th liner that would add an element of grit that the Leafs 100% DO need, and then pull the trigger because cap space is most certainly a valuable asset when your blueline is as terrible as the Leafs is.
This trade works in multiple ways for Toronto


Zacha has 2C upside? oh dear. and a crappy 4th liner who has GRITTTTTTTT!!! Yeah, no, this does nothing for the Leafs. late 1sts and ok prospects are nice but this is bad. It doesnt work for the Leafs because it doesnt help the Leafs. They are a worse team after this trade and the futures arnt worth it and if they are going to take out some of their current roster strictly for cap space for a ufa defender they'd be about a million times better just cutting out of the bottom 6.
The only team this works for is New Jersey, and fans of teams who want to see the leafs be bad
25 sept. 2020 à 15 h 8
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Quoting: JaredOfLondon
Zacha has 2C upside? oh dear. and a crappy 4th liner who has GRITTTTTTTT!!! Yeah, no, this does nothing for the Leafs. late 1sts and ok prospects are nice but this is bad. It doesnt work for the Leafs because it doesnt help the Leafs. They are a worse team after this trade and the futures arnt worth it and if they are going to take out some of their current roster strictly for cap space for a ufa defender they'd be about a million times better just cutting out of the bottom 6.
The only team this works for is New Jersey, and fans of teams who want to see the leafs be bad


Yes, Zacha does have 2C upside
Because he's 23
He isn't done developing.
Saying Foote is an okay prospect is like saying Sandin is an okay prospect, you can say it but that doesn't make it true. Both are very good prospects.
18th overall is a mid 1st as well, not a late one.
25 sept. 2020 à 15 h 12
#7
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Quoting: I4evrblue
Yes, Zacha does have 2C upside
Because he's 23
He isn't done developing.
Saying Foote is an okay prospect is like saying Sandin is an okay prospect, you can say it but that doesn't make it true. Both are very good prospects.
18th overall is a mid 1st as well, not a late one.


If zacha has 2C upside then William Nylander has best RW in the league potential. Zacha has never remotly shown that he can be a top 60C in the league.
Foote is an ok prospect because he's ok, he's not bad, he's not fantastic. Sandin is a better than OK prospect because he's shown he can play in the NHL. And he's simply a good prospect. Foote proves he can do that, he gets to be a good prospect too!
And yes, the way prospects drop off after the top 10, the 18th over all is a late 1st. call it a later 1st if you want. Even a mid 1st is not enough to spice up a trade for Nylander, It's already been established that that's the kind of 1st you get as the main piece for Kapanen.
25 sept. 2020 à 15 h 25
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Devils take that and run
25 sept. 2020 à 15 h 26
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Quoting: JaredOfLondon
If zacha has 2C upside then William Nylander has best RW in the league potential. Zacha has never remotly shown that he can be a top 60C in the league.
Foote is an ok prospect because he's ok, he's not bad, he's not fantastic. Sandin is a better than OK prospect because he's shown he can play in the NHL. And he's simply a good prospect. Foote proves he can do that, he gets to be a good prospect too!
And yes, the way prospects drop off after the top 10, the 18th over all is a late 1st. call it a later 1st if you want. Even a mid 1st is not enough to spice up a trade for Nylander, It's already been established that that's the kind of 1st you get as the main piece for Kapanen.


A main piece for Kapanen
This is 1 of 3 solid pieces for Nylander (not including the cap space to afford a top 4 RD which could/should count as a 4th asset).
You're right, Nylander does have more potential, thats how it works for guys that are under 25.
Also, every draft is different. A mid-1st like #18 was worth more in 2015 than it was in, say, 2013, and everybody knew it leading up to the draft.
2020 is supposed to be a good draft so adding another mid 1st is a solid option as long as you don't throw it away ala Boston in '13.
Lastly, Zacha has 100% shown top 6 potential. His PPG have gone from 0.34, 0.36, 0.41 to 0.49 which is steady progression that sound result in a 50+ point forward in the near future. That coupled with the fact that he plays 2 minutes a night on the PK (which the Leafs and their 21st ranked PK desperately need help with), and can help the 2nd PP unit, means this kid has potential.
25 sept. 2020 à 15 h 48
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Quoting: JaredOfLondon
Cap space is not a value asset in a trade when the player you are trading is on a very good contract.


Narrator: Cap space has never been more valuable

Quoting: JaredOfLondon
How about this, take out the guy who peaks as a 3C who is terrible at defence


Narrator: Zacha is a 3c now who is very good defensively

Quoting: JaredOfLondon
Foote is an ok prospect because he's ok, he's not bad, he's not fantastic.


Narrator: Foote would immediately become Toronto's #1 prospect
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25 sept. 2020 à 15 h 53
#11
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I'd think NJD would hold off on this deal. Nylander is a good player, and if they were one wing away from making a run, it makes sense.
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25 sept. 2020 à 15 h 53
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
Narrator: Cap space has never been more valuable



Narrator: Zacha is a 3c now who is very good defensively



Narrator: Foote would immediately become Toronto's #1 prospect


/sigh
Is cap space valuable? yes.
Is cap space more valuable than 1st line wingers on good contracts? No
Is Zacha a 3c? marginally
is Zacha good defensivly? god no, he's horrific, like terrible awful bad at evens and is decent on the PK
would Foote be the Leafs best prospect? No, depending on how you qualify prospects both Robertson and Sandin are easily better. And simply being "Team A's best prospect" does not denote specific value to a player. they are still worth what they are worth if they are the best or 10th best. Foote doesnt move the needle for Nylander
25 sept. 2020 à 16 h 12
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Quoting: JaredOfLondon
Is cap space valuable? yes.
Is cap space more valuable than 1st line wingers on good contracts? No


Is cap space a finite good? Yes
Is Toronto in need of such good? Yes
Are there suitable alternatives? No

Are offensive wingers a finite good? No
Is Toronto in need of such good? No
Are there suitable alternatives? Yes

Quoting: JaredOfLondon
Is Zacha a 3c? marginally
is Zacha good defensivly? god no, he's horrific, like terrible awful bad at evens and is decent on the PK


Is this just flat out wrong? Yes

Quoting: JaredOfLondon
would Foote be the Leafs best prospect? No, depending on how you qualify prospects both Robertson and Sandin are easily better. And simply being "Team A's best prospect" does not denote specific value to a player. they are still worth what they are worth if they are the best or 10th best. Foote doesnt move the needle for Nylander


My correction - Foote would be #2 to Robertson, ahead of Sandin and the rest.
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25 sept. 2020 à 16 h 18
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Quoting: JaredOfLondon
/sigh
Is cap space valuable? yes.
Is cap space more valuable than 1st line wingers on good contracts? No
Is Zacha a 3c? marginally
is Zacha good defensivly? god no, he's horrific, like terrible awful bad at evens and is decent on the PK
would Foote be the Leafs best prospect? No, depending on how you qualify prospects both Robertson and Sandin are easily better. And simply being "Team A's best prospect" does not denote specific value to a player. they are still worth what they are worth if they are the best or 10th best. Foote doesnt move the needle for Nylander


Not marginally. Kapanen, who we have established is worth a mid 1st and prospect had less TOI/GP, less PP TOI/GP, less SH TOI/GP, had a similar PPG, is 1 year older and is signed for nearly 1M more per season. He's a 3rd liner and, based on usage and stats, is a less trusted one than Zacha that plays a position of less importance.
25 sept. 2020 à 16 h 25
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
Is cap space a finite good? Yes
Is Toronto in need of such good? Yes
Are there suitable alternatives? No

Are offensive wingers a finite good? No
Is Toronto in need of such good? No
Are there suitable alternatives? Yes



Is this just flat out wrong? Yes



My correction - Foote would be #2 to Robertson, ahead of Sandin and the rest.


Cap space is only as valuable as what you have to spend it on. If the leafs need cap space, they are not expending a guy like Nylander to get it when they have many other options.
and yes, teams need more than one first line winger
Zacha is awful defensivly, literally every metric that exists says he is. lots of devils fans i have talked with say he is. every game i have watched (which are many) say he is. the 3 devils fans here and the people they have convinced with zero evidence other than "they watch the games" say he isnt. I think i know what side to believe.
Sandin is 100% a better prospect than foot. And even if Foote was as good a prospect as Sandin, a 1st near the 20s, sandin and a 3C who cant defend to save his life or even hit 40 points does not get you a 30+ goal 1st liner on a good contract
25 sept. 2020 à 16 h 33
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Quoting: JaredOfLondon
Cap space is only as valuable as what you have to spend it on.


Yes, but it is like water. Use a lot of it, as much as you can, overuse it at times, but run out of it...and you're F^@&ed.


Quoting: JaredOfLondon
Zacha is awful defensivly, literally every metric that exists says he is. lots of devils fans i have talked with say he is. every game i have watched (which are many) say he is. the 3 devils fans here and the people they have convinced with zero evidence other than "they watch the games" say he isnt. I think i know what side to believe.
Sandin is 100% a better prospect than foot. And even if Foote was as good a prospect as Sandin, a 1st near the 20s, sandin and a 3C who cant defend to save his life or even hit 40 points does not get you a 30+ goal 1st liner on a good contract


You are making that up, because nobody says this, no metrics show this and you clearly haven't watched much of him play.

Quoting: JaredOfLondon
Sandin is 100% a better prospect than foot. And even if Foote was as good a prospect as Sandin, a 1st near the 20s, sandin and a 3C who cant defend to save his life or even hit 40 points does not get you a 30+ goal 1st liner on a good contract


That is your opinion and you are entitled to it.
(Also Nylander had 7 goals last year...Zacha had 13....so....how 'bout that?)
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25 sept. 2020 à 16 h 43
#17
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Quoting: NHLfan10506
Yes, but it is like water. Use a lot of it, as much as you can, overuse it at times, but run out of it...and you're F^@&ed.

cool, the leafs havent run out of cap space. so its not an issue
and yes, the metric show it. i suggest you look them up. Also people have said it. and if you think otherwise you clearly have never watched him play
Nylander had 31 goals this year, zacha had 8




You are making that up, because nobody says this, no metrics show this and you clearly haven't watched much of him play.



That is your opinion and you are entitled to it.
(Also Nylander had 7 goals last year...Zacha had 13....so....how 'bout that?)
 
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