SalarySwishSalarySwish
Forums/Armchair-GM

Should They Consider Adding Grit Physicality And Size

Créé par: AnalyticsGeek
Équipe: 2020-21 Penguins de Pittsburgh
Date de création initiale: 16 août 2020
Publié: 16 août 2020
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Description
Over the past week I’ve come across many Pens fans who suggested that the team needs to add some forwards with size, physicality and aggressiveness. In the past, I would’ve never considered this since the Penguins won back to back cups by being a fast and skilled puck possession team, but after their recent post-season collapse, it’s made me wonder whether or not its time for a philosophical change.

The thing is, the Penguins are no longer the fastest team in the NHL. Ever since their championship years, most of the league has adapted and opposing players can keep up with them. Now it is very easy for trap teams like Montreal to shut them down by preventing them from entering the neutral zone with speed and forcing turnovers to transition the other way. Perhaps having a few big and aggressive forwards who can outwork the opposing defence and win puck battles after the dump in will help exploit this defensive system.

Obviously the Penguins should not abandon the speed and skill philosophy altogether since their top players prefer that system, but maybe adding a few complimentary forwards in the bottom 6 will make it easier for them to make adjustments when playing against an opposition that has figured them out. Even during their 2016 and 2017 championship runs, they had a few forwards such as Kunitz, Hornqvist, Hagelin, Sheary, Wilson and Rowney who were extremely relentless and heavy on the forecheck. They would always pressure the defence and retrieve pucks to maintain the offensive zone cycle, something we didn’t really see in this series.

Now I shall showcase some potential players who play the heavy style the team could possibly look at:

Matt Martin: A fourth liner, he is part of the famous Martin-Cizikas-Clutterbuck trio that shuts down the opposition’s top forwards and gets under their skin. He doesn’t generate anything offensively, but his expected goals against ranks in the 99th percentile. Despite his age, he’s still one of the best forecheckers in the league. He might be willing to sign for the league minimum next season.

Zemgus Girgensons: Another guy who generates nothing offensively, Girgensons has established himself as a bottom 6 forward known for his defensive specialties and physical play. The Penguins could offer him a 1-2 year deal at around 1.5 Million. I think signing one of him or Martin could make ZAR available in which they can sell high and fetch a similar return compared to Blake Coleman.

Sam Bennett: Though he’s not the biggest, he plays quite an intimidating style as he delivers big hits and is relentless on the forecheck. He’s got good hands, skates well and generates scoring chances at a relatively high rate. Can play all Forward positions and is performing well this playoffs. I believe Calgary would want the 15th overall pick, which for me is too much given his lack of production.

Samuel Blais: He is an extremely aggressive and relentless forward. Is known for delivering huge hits and provides the team lots of energy. A beast on the forecheck. He isn’t particularly good at driving offence but he is decent defensively. Maybe St Louis would be interested in swapping Simon, or they’d want Legare.

Julien Gauthier: He was only a rookie this season but already established himself as one of the league’s best forecheckers. He’s got great size, skates extremely fast and is physical. He generates shot attempts at an above average rate but still needs to work on his defensive game, but expect him to get better as he grows.

Jesper Fast: Another NYR forward, he’s had an excellent season alongside Panarin and Strome. He is a good play driver at even strength and is also good defensively. He’s got excellent speed, is relentless on the forecheck and is not afraid to throw the body. Expect him to get a similar deal compared to Brandon Tanev.
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
43 500 000 $
21 500 000 $
2900 000 $
23 000 000 $
1900 000 $
UFAANSCAP HIT
21 500 000 $
22 000 000 $
Transactions
Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
2020
Logo de PIT
Logo de PIT
Logo de PIT
Logo de PIT
Logo de PIT
2021
Logo de PIT
Logo de PIT
Logo de PIT
Logo de ANA
2022
Logo de PIT
Logo de PIT
Logo de PIT
Logo de PIT
Logo de PIT
Logo de PIT
Logo de PIT
TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2381 500 000 $76 350 175 $0 $850 000 $5 149 825 $

Formation

Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
4 500 000 $4 500 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 4
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
8 700 000 $8 700 000 $
C
NMC
UFA - 5
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
5 300 000 $5 300 000 $
AD
NTC
UFA - 3
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
5 500 000 $5 500 000 $
AG, AD
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
9 500 000 $9 500 000 $
C
NMC
UFA - 2
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
3 500 000 $3 500 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 2
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
3 500 000 $3 500 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 2
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
2 050 000 $2 050 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 1
Logo de Blues de St-Louis
1 500 000 $1 500 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 2
1 500 000 $1 500 000 $
AG, C
UFA - 3
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
750 000 $750 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 1
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
3 500 000 $3 500 000 $
AG, AD
M-NTC
UFA - 5
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
4 100 000 $4 100 000 $
DG
M-NTC
UFA - 3
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
7 250 000 $7 250 000 $
DD
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 2
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
3 000 000 $3 000 000 $
G
UFA - 3
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
4 025 175 $4 025 175 $
DG
UFA - 5
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
925 000 $925 000 $ (Bonis de performance850 000 $$850K)
DD
UFA - 1
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
1 250 000 $1 250 000 $
G
UFA - 2
2 000 000 $2 000 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
900 000 $900 000 $
DG
UFA - 2
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
900 000 $900 000 $
AD, C, AG
UFA - 2
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
1 150 000 $1 150 000 $
DG
UFA - 1
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
1 500 000 $1 500 000 $
AG, C
UFA - 1
Logo de Penguins de Pittsburgh
700 000 $700 000 $
DD
UFA - 1

Code d'intégration

  • Pour afficher cette équipe sur un autre site Web ou blog, ajoutez ce iFrame à la page appropriée
  • Personnalisez les dimensions dans le code IFrame ci-dessous pour adapter votre site de manière appropriée. Minimum recommandé: 400px.

Texte intégré

Cliquer pour surligner
Should They Add Grit And Physicality?
Le graphique a été masqué

Options de sondage


16 août 2020 à 16 h 23
#1
Banni
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: sept. 2019
Messages: 5,011
Mentions "j'aime": 1,636
Modifié 16 août 2020 à 16 h 53
What'd you guys think of the idea that the Penguins need to add grit and physicality? Are you in favour of it?

DON'T QUOTE THIS POST!
16 août 2020 à 16 h 28
#2
Pop Pop
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: févr. 2018
Messages: 14,629
Mentions "j'aime": 8,285
Good lord sam Bennett is a playoff monster
16 août 2020 à 16 h 48
#3
Démarrer sujet
Banni
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: sept. 2019
Messages: 5,011
Mentions "j'aime": 1,636
Quoting: Jfstompers
Good lord sam Bennett is a playoff monster


Looks like he picks up his game for the big occasion.
16 août 2020 à 17 h 39
#4
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: avr. 2017
Messages: 1,769
Mentions "j'aime": 491
Who’s Legare? Blues may be open to it because they probably won’t protect Blais in ED
16 août 2020 à 17 h 50
#5
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: janv. 2020
Messages: 8,370
Mentions "j'aime": 2,275
Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
Looks like he picks up his game for the big occasion.


Could just be lucky bounces or he could have improved during the break too
16 août 2020 à 17 h 51
#6
Banni
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: juin 2018
Messages: 19,215
Mentions "j'aime": 4,837
"but maybe adding a few complimentary forwards in the bottom 6 "

This is the problem with your whole thought right here.
Every time someone talks about bringing in size, everyone goes...... Oh we did that look at reaves trade it was so bad...blah blah blah.

And it's just stupid in stupid out.

Go look around the league. Teams got big physical players who can actually play hockey. Wilson, Tkachuk, Lee, Stone, PLD. You can go on and on.

Mean while our 5'10(maybe) 40 goal winger and 5'11(maybe) Crosby are the biggest guys on their line this series, none of which are ever going to do anything as the line got shoved to the ground. God knows the mop wasn't going to do anything he was too busy cleaning up the ice with his face.

The problem isn't fixed by adding people to the 4th line. They need bigger forwards who can actually bring an edge to their game and lay a hit. There is literally no forecheck on that top line. None.
Crosby can not be the biggest guy on that top line and we both know Jake and Crosby are never going to really hit anyone. The other team looks across there, see's guys 5-6 inches shorter then them and just shoves them around.
That isn't going to change because they aren't that much faster than those guys if at all. Does anyone really believe in a foot race it's going to be a blow out between them and the guys above I just mentioned?

Every team in the league knows this. You don't fix it bringing in Reaves.
They need to find a 6'3 230lb guy who can fly and is a bit nasty. It will make a huge difference come the playoffs. They sure as hell wouldn't be getting shoved around my MTL if that was the case. There would have been an ass whooping on the ice and the Small MTL team would have learned the hard way.
Furthermore, we just can't keep thinking anyone is going to come in here and take care of these things themselves. They should know they have help, and support. Which this team really doesn't have.
It's a team culture problem. You got guys out there that are willing to do whatever it takes to win a cup or go on deep runs, and get the large paycheck that comes with those things. We got guys who only want to play hockey. They aren't the same thing.
When teams know they aren't going to beat you skill wise they will find other ways. At some point you have to be willing to dish it back out and be able to across 4 lines. And not have some dumb ass coach who can't get it through his head that this is hockey you do indeed hit people. Especially when they are targeting your star players.
None of that happens on this team.
16 août 2020 à 18 h 17
#7
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: déc. 2017
Messages: 1,271
Mentions "j'aime": 581
Quoting: pharrow
"but maybe adding a few complimentary forwards in the bottom 6 "

This is the problem with your whole thought right here.
Every time someone talks about bringing in size, everyone goes...... Oh we did that look at reaves trade it was so bad...blah blah blah.

And it's just stupid in stupid out.

Go look around the league. Teams got big physical players who can actually play hockey. Wilson, Tkachuk, Lee, Stone, PLD. You can go on and on.

Mean while our 5'10(maybe) 40 goal winger and 5'11(maybe) Crosby are the biggest guys on their line this series, none of which are ever going to do anything as the line got shoved to the ground. God knows the mop wasn't going to do anything he was too busy cleaning up the ice with his face.

The problem isn't fixed by adding people to the 4th line. They need bigger forwards who can actually bring an edge to their game and lay a hit. There is literally no forecheck on that top line. None.
Crosby can not be the biggest guy on that top line and we both know Jake and Crosby are never going to really hit anyone. The other team looks across there, see's guys 5-6 inches shorter then them and just shoves them around.
That isn't going to change because they aren't that much faster than those guys if at all. Does anyone really believe in a foot race it's going to be a blow out between them and the guys above I just mentioned?

Every team in the league knows this. You don't fix it bringing in Reaves.
They need to find a 6'3 230lb guy who can fly and is a bit nasty. It will make a huge difference come the playoffs. They sure as hell wouldn't be getting shoved around my MTL if that was the case. There would have been an ass whooping on the ice and the Small MTL team would have learned the hard way.
Furthermore, we just can't keep thinking anyone is going to come in here and take care of these things themselves. They should know they have help, and support. Which this team really doesn't have.
It's a team culture problem. You got guys out there that are willing to do whatever it takes to win a cup or go on deep runs, and get the large paycheck that comes with those things. We got guys who only want to play hockey. They aren't the same thing.
When teams know they aren't going to beat you skill wise they will find other ways. At some point you have to be willing to dish it back out and be able to across 4 lines. And not have some dumb ass coach who can't get it through his head that this is hockey you do indeed hit people. Especially when they are targeting your star players.
None of that happens on this team.


We have a guy like that in Lafferty but Sullivan never plays him
16 août 2020 à 18 h 23
#8
Banni
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: juin 2018
Messages: 19,215
Mentions "j'aime": 4,837
Quoting: Jesus
We have a guy like that in Lafferty but Sullivan never plays him


Lafferty isn't a top line player though. He doesn't even compare skill wise with those other guys I listed above an a lot more as well.
But I do agree. He should have played instead of Marlaue. Who is worthless.
But Sullivan doesn't like anyone who "gasp" is willing to hit someone. they might take a penalty....like the other teams in the playoffs give a crap while they smack around 40 goal scorers.

This team has issues, from the coach on down. There needs to be a real cultural shift here. They don't have forever to wait. Teams got 2 years left of Crosby and Malkin being able to carry them to a cup. Then forget it. With no real injection of young talent capable of holding this team up, they will be mid of the pack bubble team before being perennial losers.
16 août 2020 à 20 h 9
#9
Démarrer sujet
Banni
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: sept. 2019
Messages: 5,011
Mentions "j'aime": 1,636
Quoting: pharrow
"but maybe adding a few complimentary forwards in the bottom 6 "

This is the problem with your whole thought right here.
Every time someone talks about bringing in size, everyone goes...... Oh we did that look at reaves trade it was so bad...blah blah blah.

And it's just stupid in stupid out.

Go look around the league. Teams got big physical players who can actually play hockey. Wilson, Tkachuk, Lee, Stone, PLD. You can go on and on.

Mean while our 5'10(maybe) 40 goal winger and 5'11(maybe) Crosby are the biggest guys on their line this series, none of which are ever going to do anything as the line got shoved to the ground. God knows the mop wasn't going to do anything he was too busy cleaning up the ice with his face.

The problem isn't fixed by adding people to the 4th line. They need bigger forwards who can actually bring an edge to their game and lay a hit. There is literally no forecheck on that top line. None.
Crosby can not be the biggest guy on that top line and we both know Jake and Crosby are never going to really hit anyone. The other team looks across there, see's guys 5-6 inches shorter then them and just shoves them around.
That isn't going to change because they aren't that much faster than those guys if at all. Does anyone really believe in a foot race it's going to be a blow out between them and the guys above I just mentioned?

Every team in the league knows this. You don't fix it bringing in Reaves.
They need to find a 6'3 230lb guy who can fly and is a bit nasty. It will make a huge difference come the playoffs. They sure as hell wouldn't be getting shoved around my MTL if that was the case. There would have been an ass whooping on the ice and the Small MTL team would have learned the hard way.
Furthermore, we just can't keep thinking anyone is going to come in here and take care of these things themselves. They should know they have help, and support. Which this team really doesn't have.
It's a team culture problem. You got guys out there that are willing to do whatever it takes to win a cup or go on deep runs, and get the large paycheck that comes with those things. We got guys who only want to play hockey. They aren't the same thing.
When teams know they aren't going to beat you skill wise they will find other ways. At some point you have to be willing to dish it back out and be able to across 4 lines. And not have some dumb ass coach who can't get it through his head that this is hockey you do indeed hit people. Especially when they are targeting your star players.
None of that happens on this team.


Quoting: Jesus
We have a guy like that in Lafferty but Sullivan never plays him


Yeah, I think every team would like to have a forward with size, physicality and has elite skill. The issue is, those are the hardest type of guys to get. You either draft them like CHI & BUF did with Dach & Cozens, or you have to trade a king's ransom to fetch a guy like Wilson or Tkachuk. Perhaps the Pens should've traded for Kreider at the deadline instead of Zucker, but Kreider is not good defensively and commands a higher salary, so tough call.

There are not a lot of options this offseason, so unless they make a big move for someone like Evander Kane, they're gonna have to change their culture by retooling the complimentary guys, similarly to what Tampa did. Tampa's top 2 lines are a bunch of small skilled guys & their bottom 6 have all the tough grinders (Goodrow, Coleman, Gourde, Verhaghe, Maroon) who do all the heavy forecheck to lift the team. Honestly, it's worked quite well so far as they're outplaying CBJ heavily.

The Pens have too many issues to solve this offseason with their need to fix the 3rd pair & get a top-line RW so they probably have to go this route. There are two guys who I think you guys would like: Julien Gauthier & Sam Bennett. Both extremely play extremely fast, physical & are aggressive on the forecheck, but haven't established themselves as top 6 players. They certainly have the talent to do so.
TheGuyInTheChair a aimé ceci.
16 août 2020 à 21 h 37
#10
NoWah49
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: févr. 2018
Messages: 4,865
Mentions "j'aime": 1,432
I like Bennett but Calgary might ask for a bit more than he's worth
16 août 2020 à 23 h 40
#11
Banni
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: juin 2018
Messages: 19,215
Mentions "j'aime": 4,837
Quoting: MitchMarnerElite
Yeah, I think every team would like to have a forward with size, physicality and has elite skill. The issue is, those are the hardest type of guys to get. You either draft them like CHI & BUF did with Dach & Cozens, or you have to trade a king's ransom to fetch a guy like Wilson or Tkachuk. Perhaps the Pens should've traded for Kreider at the deadline instead of Zucker, but Kreider is not good defensively and commands a higher salary, so tough call.

There are not a lot of options this offseason, so unless they make a big move for someone like Evander Kane, they're gonna have to change their culture by retooling the complimentary guys, similarly to what Tampa did. Tampa's top 2 lines are a bunch of small skilled guys & their bottom 6 have all the tough grinders (Goodrow, Coleman, Gourde, Verhaghe, Maroon) who do all the heavy forecheck to lift the team. Honestly, it's worked quite well so far as they're outplaying CBJ heavily.

The Pens have too many issues to solve this offseason with their need to fix the 3rd pair & get a top-line RW so they probably have to go this route. There are two guys who I think you guys would like: Julien Gauthier & Sam Bennett. Both extremely play extremely fast, physical & are aggressive on the forecheck, but haven't established themselves as top 6 players. They certainly have the talent to do so.


There is definitely truth that these players are hard to find. No one is doubting that.
But they have had this problem for years now. And they can't seem to figure it out.

I think Josh Anderson is a guy they should target. I know CBJ will try to sign him or match. But maybe not. He'd cost a 2nd in compensation.
Which is probably far less than we'd pay for Krieder.

I don't know, I don't claim to have all the answers. But the need is clear. You can't win when Jake is constantly getting knocked down to the ice. And the mop is absolutely useless.
It's basically Crosby with the puck and no one to pass to. Something has to change.

This team needs to build itself for playoff hockey. You aren't going to just skate past anyone anymore. It happens in every sport. First they get faster, then they get bigger. rinse repeat. Until you plateau
We'll the NHL has officially started to plateau. Everyone has the speed, and the size of guys is next.
17 août 2020 à 13 h 10
#12
Démarrer sujet
Banni
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: sept. 2019
Messages: 5,011
Mentions "j'aime": 1,636
Quoting: pharrow
There is definitely truth that these players are hard to find. No one is doubting that.
But they have had this problem for years now. And they can't seem to figure it out.

I think Josh Anderson is a guy they should target. I know CBJ will try to sign him or match. But maybe not. He'd cost a 2nd in compensation.
Which is probably far less than we'd pay for Krieder.

I don't know, I don't claim to have all the answers. But the need is clear. You can't win when Jake is constantly getting knocked down to the ice. And the mop is absolutely useless.
It's basically Crosby with the puck and no one to pass to. Something has to change.

This team needs to build itself for playoff hockey. You aren't going to just skate past anyone anymore. It happens in every sport. First they get faster, then they get bigger. rinse repeat. Until you plateau
We'll the NHL has officially started to plateau. Everyone has the speed, and the size of guys is next.


I think Anderson is a good option. He’s extremely fast & physical. Not to mention a pretty good goal scorer. I believe CBJ would be fine giving him up for a 2nd.
17 août 2020 à 19 h 20
#13
Fan
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: févr. 2018
Messages: 155
Mentions "j'aime": 3
I've thought for a while that Anderson would look good for Pitt.
I liked Reaves on this team more than many here. If memory serves correct I don't think he's been scratched much on more successful team.

So in many words, yes to more grit, and size too.
18 août 2020 à 16 h 6
#14
Avatar de l'utilisateur
Rejoint: août 2017
Messages: 3,022
Mentions "j'aime": 351
I think Virtanen is the best and cheapest option we can get for this role. For many many reasons
 
Répondre
To create a post please Login or S'inscrire
Question:
Options:
Chargement de l'animation
Soumettre les modifications du sondage