this gets 1 of them, not both

Counter offer, Tatar, Petry vs 2020 1st (TOR), 2021 1st (CAR), Ryan Suzuki

We need a good winger. Tatar isn't the answer. You saw what he was like in Vegas. Just because he's succeeding in Montreal doesn't mean he'll work here. I'd much rather target someone like Toffoli

Id take Tatar over Toffoli. Tatar struggled in Vegas, but he was also buried by good players playing really well. Don't short change what's he's done in MTL, he's been good

From an analytical standpoint, he's not been good. It's a case of "someone has to score" . I respect Tatar as a player, I loved him in his days in Detroit, I just don't think he's the answer here.

What’s the plan with salary?

Carolina and Montreal have almost the same number of goals, and Tatar's points totals are similar to Aho, Svechnikov and Teravainen. Would you say their a case of someone has to score? And what stats show that he hasn't been good?

Run it through the trade machine. Prorated salaries this puts them less than $1 mil over. LTIR Dougie and there's plenty of cap space.

I don't even respond to this guy. He's right everyone else is wrong, no matter what.

I think if either of them gets moved, you will disappointed with the return.

Look at his GAR when combined with his RAPM and he's in the bottom quartile of the league. Svechnikov when you combine his RAPM with GAR he's top 5 among forwards.... you take your pick. TT Aho and Svechnikov all have solid underlying numbers for forwards, Tuna doesn't . Great forward, not worth the asking price

Which site are you getting the stats from? Everyone I have found providing those are paywalled.

Fair enough. I like that we can have our own opinions without someone getting mad. Have you experienced that on this site? haha

Evolving-Hockey. I just pay for it. It's worth it for me ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

That is 99.999999999% of this site ??

I figured. I don't care enough about winning internet arguments to spend money on something like that.

Okay.... but I use it for more than that

Vegas is literally the only time Tatar played poorly in his entire career. Otherwise he's been money in the bank 20 goals or more every season he's been in the NHL. How is that not good? We subscribe to different analytics sites- I favor charting hockey myself- and his analytics over there are great. He's exactly what Carolina needs. Toffoli is good too, but also has a tendency to do good year/bad year, and he doesn't have term.

That actually favours Carolina here. If Toffoli is bad, we don't have to pay to dump him. Tatar's not got the analytics of Aho or Teravainen. His not a kind of winger who fits the needs of Carolina. An ideal fit is Kreider, but he won't move indivision

Sure but Aho and Teravainen are much better than Toffoli too, they're boderline to elite players, no one available has their analytics. I guess I just don't understand how a guy who always scores twenty goals a year is not fitting the needs of Carolina. They've wanted another scoring winger going all the way back to the Justin Faulk trade. Sometimes, most of the time, TDL deals don't work out, and it didn't work out for Vegas. But Vegas also didn't need to "pay" to dump him, they recouped a huge asset in Pacioretty when they traded him to Montreal, and Pacioretty has been excellent for Vegas. If Toffoli sucks, you just spent all those assets for nothing, you get nothing back. TDL deals are always risky like that. Much better to go after a guy with term.

Tatar was a throw in for Cap reasons, let's be frank. We all understand that he was just moved to allow Vegas to have the full cap hit of Patches. There are guys with TT and Aho level analytics, and there was this year, but Arizona acquired him. There's possibly someone like Kase if they overpay too

I strongly disagree with both of those points.

Obviously without Tatar going the other way the cap doesn't work, but you can tell that Montreal valued him highly because they got very little other stuff in that trade. If he was just a cap dump on Montreal, Montreal would have asked for more valuable assets than Nick Suzuki and the 60th overall pick for a perennial 30 goal scorer and their captain. More likely, Montreal wanted Tatar to be a minor but much cheaper downgrade on the ice immediately (which he has been, because he's good), and got back a few low impact futures to make up the difference in value, with due respect to Nick Suzuki.

In addition, Tatar is outperforming Taylor Hall in every meaningful advanced stat this year, Tatar lines up much closer with your guys than Hall. I'm certainly not saying Hall is bad or anything, but if "similar analytics to Teravianen and Aho" is your biggest criteria, Tatar is still the guy you should want even if Hall was available, and he'll be cheaper to get than what Arizona gave to New Jersey. Kase is very good too, his analytics line up well like you like, but that's definitely a more future minded move, considering his underlying numbers haven't yet translated into on-ice production (so he might not help you for this playoff push) and his RFA status/current cap hit with term gives Anaheim tons of leverage to demand a higher price. I'd still go for Tatar over those guys unless you could get Kase for just the right price, which as you note seems unlikely.

okay but this is a literal garbage offer for BOTH of them