Is this really happening?

This totally proves my point. I mentioned 3 different situations from different seasons and you are say that crap about four players playing on a line.

I guess i'll clear this up.

My point is yes super elites drive lines. Marner has done that no matter who he plays with, as has Matthews who's scored more goals than anyone else at 5v5 since he entered the league. And only for a stretch this season have him and Marner played together at 5v5. This all started when you said Marner and Matthews can't score when they are separated. That is 100% wrong and shows you just don't watch the Leafs.

Yeah Draisaitl could be a dominant 100 point player with good linemates. McDavid turns anyone into a point producer. The point is though, he's not done that yet. He needs more support to be that dominant.

Yah because Marner and Matthews are playing with other elite players. Rielly, Andersson, Nylander, Tavares, Marner and Mathews are all elite, they all play together and score together, How about this, put Marner with Kassian and Chaisson who is Drai played moth with besides Connor and see how Marner does.

Probably not as well as he would with Who he plays with now.

Are you not happy that I talk to you all the time and we debate about hockey and you dont have to just debate with Siri or Alexa?

But the point is, Draisaitl has played most of his time with McDavid and you guys call him a top 5 player in the NHL. Away from him he's getting scored on more than he's scoring but gets the PP points to inflate his overall credentials. Only recently could that be said about TO. They get the least amount of PP opportunities in the league as well.

Lol nice

TSN said he is top 5, I dont think he is top 5, I can probably come up with 10 right off the top of my head who I would pick before him. It is just a sports writers list, who cares. and everyone is allowed an opinion. Mine will of course be biased. Like I love Marner and McKinnon, some people dont think as high as me on Marner. but each to their own.

May I remind everybody that Draisaitl hasn't been on the same line as McDavid for quite a while now, he is playing really well and is making the guys around him (nuge and yamamoto) better.

I think McDavid, McKinnon and Crosby are just a cut above anyone else. Then there are some who could get that good like Matthews, Eichel, Barkov and then there are a bunch of really incredible players that can do so much. Right now I see Draisaitl as that group. Tremendous for sure, elite players but just not those true completely dominant players. He needs to do more on his own for me to see him as a super elite.

Too many people don't realize this. The guys at puckiq.com have "binned" players by performance levels, and they've found that when you play an Elite player with two Gritensity players, you get either Middle or Gritensity levels of production from that Elite player, depending on their ability to carry others. Elite players need to be with at least Middle players to produce Elite results. The formula is consistent across the league.

I haven't followed this whole debate, just skimmed in and thought I'd chime in on a couple of points.

1) Support / playing with other elite players.

The creators of puckiq.com have "binned" players by performance levels, and they've found that when you play an Elite player with two Gritensity players, you get either Middle or Gritensity levels of production from that Elite player, depending on their ability to carry others. Elite players need to be with at least Middle players to produce Elite results. The formula is consistent across the league.

2) Draisaitl without McDavid recently.

They've been split up for 8 games now, still a small sample size but not infinitesimal. Of course they're still together on the PP, it would be stupid to break up the best PP ever* for no reason. So we'll focus on 5v5 numbers. In the past 8 games Draisaitl has scored 6 points and McDavid 6 points, and neither was on the ice for any of the other's points. The Nuge-Draisaitl-Yamamoto line has gone 7-1 in 90:22, the Neal-McDavid-Kassian line was 4-2 in 72:39 and the Neal-McDavid-Archibald line (during Kassian's 2-game suspension) was 2-1 in 22:54.

*Okay, it's not the best ever, but the Oilers' PP conversion ratio of 29.7% is the best of any team since the Oilers entered the league in 1979. Forty-one years. That's pretty impressive.

But anyway, this trade doesn't make sense for either team: Edmonton is pretty set on defense and needs more quality forwards, while the Leafs are top-heavy with forwards but need to shore up their defense. There are zero reasons for either team to consider this trade.

Obviously TO would never offer this trade, I highly doubt Edmonton would have the audacity. Its an insulting proposition. The point I have been making is that the trade above is massively in Edmonton's favour. If this was offered by TO, Edmonton would be utterly insane to not take it.

I can agree that it doesn't work for either team. That's about it though.

Edmonton would lose a good forward sure but would have an embasment of terrific defence to flaunt and use to get more than Draisaitl back in return. Plus 2 1st?!?! This is a landslide win for Edmonton.

Well 2 of those players are generational talent and one is just under.

McKinnon is right up there with McDavid man. He doesn't have near the help people think he does. Rantanen and Landeskog are far lesser players without him than they are with him. He elevates everyone he plays with the same way McDavid does. He's a super elite generational talent for sure.

Yah it was a real thinking process when I wrote it. Is he generational or not. It is as close to be if he is not, I wouldnt argue with anyone saying it.

It took him a few years to really hit his stride but I'd say he's the second most valuable player in the entire league behind only McDavid.

I agree,