but gets 5 more years of contract for an already 34 year old who is showing his decline is coming in. No thanks. Dubas does not want to saddle himself with poorly thought out long term contracts.

talking about poorly thought out long-term contracts...matthews, marner, nylander to name a few

Oh you mean the 3 guys who are leading their team offensively and who's best hockey is still a head of them? Yeah thats really bad planning, it would be way smarter to give an old guy huge money and term over the twilight of his career that will surely become a cap anchor. Cool story.

I'm a Caps fan, just responding to other trade posts. In a different post, an hour ago, Leafs fans were okay with Burns for Ceci, but objected to Liljegren No need to be rude. Feel free to counteroffer.

Burns is Norris Trophy winner who, on a good team, could still get 70 points. Barrie, thrown into Hainsey's spot on one of the better teams in the league over the last couple years, is finally going to break 50 points, and then get paid a lot of money, for a long time, too.

Barrie will walk and TO doesn't need Burns who is an aging vet who's best years are behind him. There is a reason every team that has an aging vet like him with massive term left are always trading them. Its a bad contract and trading for a bad contract is never a smart plan.

Never?

himynameis nick, i am a sabres fan, i love logan couture

I am honestly shocked at how many people in the cap era still want to see young players not get paid because they "haven't earned it" but are okay with paying huge money to guys entering their 30's for what they did in their mid 20's. Its just incredible.

Corey Perry
Ryan Getzlaf
Vlasic
Price
Seabrook
Keith
Benn
Lundqvist
Suter
Parise

And I could put a tonne of other guys who haven't hit the decline yet but its coming. Burns for example, is still doing okay but he's not what he used to be and that is part of the issue in San Jose, they are old and tired.

It just doesn't matter how much evidence you present to GM's and fans alike, they'll ignore it all and point to 3 players out of the 500 or so that lace them up each year and say "See!". Remember when Okoposo was really good?

Its stunning how this plays out each and every year. On the flip side, TO pays their elite young players big money and everyone goes nuts saying they are overpaid.

Its the classic, what have you done vs what are you going to do and in the cap era, the only thing that matters is what are you going to do during the contract you are on. Whats Doughty and Karlsson getting paid for? What they are going to do over the next 8 years? Or what they did earlier in their career, because we can say with a huge degree of certainty, they won't be what they were in the earlier half of their career and that holds true for all players. So again is it ever a smart plan to give older players huge dollars and term when we can surmise with huge certainty that it will be a problem contract at some point?

Yeah, you already won that argument with Sens65.

I was asking why you thought one should never trade for a bad contract, no matter what else is in the deal. I also get that you're a Leafs fan. It seems like Dubas traded for a bad contract this past summer, and it went well, helping the Leafs manage their LTIR cap situation and sign Marner to a contract he's living up to, so far.

Arizona and Vegas have traded for bad contracts, and scored some good draft picks for doing so.

A lot of fans on here enjoy the challenge of trying to find the right trade that can move a bad contract, so that both teams end up better. Nylander had some lows last year under the old coach, but he's doing great again, so one could certainly argue his contract is almost as good as M&M's. Sure.

Most of these are okay and then theres the couture trade

I hear you on that, and sometimes getting a bad contract makes sense. If you are a team that is going into full rebuild mode, getting a few bad contracts makes sense if you can get other assets along with it. In the case of TO though, it doesn't make any sense. Dead cap space is a killer in this era. Look at Montreal, they aren't good enough to make the playoffs and really are in a tough spot. On one hand they do have some really good young players coming up, but they also have Webber and Price who are going to amount for 20 million in dead cap space in the near future which is going to handcuff them in such a huge wage and are almost impossible to trade. I also think most teams won't have an interest in bringing on anyone with tonnes of term left. For example, if I am Ottawa, I'd never want Vlasic, he has way too many years and judging by how quickly TO turned things around from the Kessel era to the Matthews era, having millions wasted in dead cap space for half a decade handcuffs you. With that being said, a rebuilding team can take on shorter bad contracts that will expire before big contracts from their new core will come into place. Cap management is a long and short term balancing act that so many GM's and most fans just don't wrap their mind around.

I generally agree. I think the Leafs are contenders as long as they have Matthews, Marner and Tavares. Adding a top RHD during that time could help them contend. Burns is all offense and very little defense, but he's on pace for almost 60 points with a bad team that isn't clicking. I think with the Leafs he'd get back to his usual 70 point pace.

Obviously, the Leafs don't want to make any move that makes it harder for them to re-sign their big three, around the same time. If Tavares wants to stick around, and Burns doesn't want to retire, it would be another Marleau situation.

But I'm not posting to say, "The Leafs need Burns." I'm posting in response to an earlier post that had the Leafs giving up Ceci and Liljegren to get Burns. Even though the Leafs aren't my team, I just saved them a top prospect, and chucked in Barrie, instead. Do you think 1M retention on Burns' long contract makes a difference?

To be honest, no. Burns is too old and I think he's part of the reason why San Jose isn't good this year. They are old, tired and just not good enough anymore. It was bound to happen at some point. I also don't think TO needs to go all in and overpay for some RHD because people think they can't win without one. I think Liljegren will be part of the answer. He isn't a Karlsson type player, he's defensively sound, an incredible skater, and is surprisingly physical. I see him being a guy that makes his name by being extremely good defensively and I think could be a very good partner for Rielly in the not too distant future. Sandin looks like he is going to be terrific as well. Throw in Dermot and Holl as very dependable depth players and TO needs to find 1 more defenceman to round out their core and it doesn't have to be an allstar just another dependable guy who can make the smart play and carry the puck a little. Johnsson can be moved to find something along those lines and this team will be in terrific shape.