The Leafs are back to playing a scoring race; a recipe that doesn't work in the playoffs as they've found out 3 years in a row. Their defense is simply not good. Giving up 3+ on most nights is not going to work long term. Leafs are top 10 in goals allowed and also shots allowed.

Sample of recent games
WPG - 3 goals
MIN - 1 goal
NYR - 5 goals
NJD - 4 goals
CAR - 6 goals
DET - 1 goal
NYR - 3 goals
BUF - 3 goals

That said, let's not sugarcoat it; the numbers say the Leafs defense is not good. So are you suggesting Barrie, Rielly, Muzzin and Holl are all better defenders in their own zone then Murphy? I hope not.

LMAO under 25? Johnsson isn't under 25...at least know your own players. Again, Johnsson is nothing but a supporting cast member middle 6 winger that never has put up more then 20goals or 43 points despite playing next to top 30 talent in the league. Hawks don't need players like that if it's going to cost a top 3 defender who is only one year older and playing the best hockey of his career...meaning he hasn't peaked yet.

I'd be interested in Johnsson if Saad gets traded, otherwise, Kubalik brings a similar game as Johnsson and Saad is world's better then Johnsson. So where would Johnsson play? Are we seriously thinking about trading Murphy for a 3rd line winger? Kane > Saad > Cat > Kubalik > Dach...that leaves Johnsson on the 3rd line. Zero interest in moving a 26 year old defender who continues to get better and is a #3 on a lot of teams, a #2 on the Hawks for Johnsson.

We would have to give the 3rd with Ceci not receive it.

That is a bit of a misrepresentation of the reality. The Leafs are still finding their way in the new system. Many of the grade A scoring chances they all are due to miscues in the offensive zone. That isn't a defensive issue, that is a turnover issue. I think they will always give up a little bit more than the "really good defensive teams" however, they control the puck so well and as they continue to get more comfortable with the system we'll see them limit the other teams transition game. Shots against is a stupid stat to look at. Just look at the Islanders, they allow a tonne of shot attempts but very few from prime scoring areas. That is what the Leafs new system is like. Last night for example, Winnipeg fired a tonne of shots at Andersen but most were from outside the slot. And to be honest, 2 of those goals I am sure Andersen wants back. He did just miss the Connor shot, and the Laine goal was a broken play. Rielly blocked the initial shot and it bounced right back onto Laine's stick and he fired it home from a bad angle when Andersen was down and out. Those happen. With all that said, TO for the most part is dominating in high danger scoring chances and with their skill, they can be out shot 50-20 but if 10 of their shots are in close, they are going to score a lot. This whole "TO can't defend look at how many goals they've allowed" is flawed. It doesn't take into effect how poor they were under Babcock and doesn't look at how they are changing under Keefe. Its still early but those early returns are beyond encouraging.

Sorry 25 and under. And whatever dude, the Hawks are going no where. Keep Murphy or trade him, doesn't matter to me, or the Hawks success.

No, he's an expiring contract and can play serviceable minutes. He's not hard to move.

Murphy has some offensive ability. He’s gotten better every year he’s been in the league and is (in my opinion) getting better offensively with more minutes.



I always said that Murphy plus Saad makes a lot of sense for the leafs, and I don’t disagree with that now.

I will go ahead and reiterate that we do not want to trade Murphy, and so it makes sense that we want substance for our player who we would clearly not like to move on from.

If you want us to agree to trade Murphy you have to do better than that.

This reeks of salt.

You're making excuses for the goals allowed...give me a break. When defenders are constantly joining the rush, turnovers happen and so do odd man rushes. The new system is about opening up scoring and having the defenders join the rush. It works for the Leafs players because they don't have great defensive. This "new system" is nothing new in the NHL, it's been tried many times but in the playoffs it doesn't work....we all know playoff hockey is a different game and defense and goaltending win.

Well clearly there is no way to make this trade work for either of us. Nylander is completely off the table as he is, as I have mentioned for the past 2 years, is an elite player. Personally, I have swung back on trading Kapanen as I don't think TO's RW depth is as good as our LW depth, which is why Johnsson is the guy I'd move. I have no interest in Saad at his contract. So there really is nothing to discuss here I guess. Have a great day though, while we tend to disagree on a lot of things you are an intelligent and pleasant fellow!

Nah, I just think we need to agree to disagree and call it a day. We really are just circling around the same concept saying no to each other.

Nope we aren't going anywhere right now, but we aren't interested in trading our best defender that is 26 years old keeps getting better especially for a middle 6 25 year old winger who doesn't drive a line; that makes zero sense for a team retooling. And for the record, Toronto isn't going anywhere without better defense but you're used to that. Ciao

I wasn’t trying to suggest that Johnson was the answer to our bottom 6 problem, and I definitely don’t think that opening a hole on defense is worth probably fixing our third line. Just saying we need to add more scoring upside to our forward group. Would love if our Nylander would figure it out.

If you bothered to watch the games, most of the turnovers are happening when a forward is holding the puck close to the line and trying to make a play when it probably would be the safer play to dump it into the corner and regroup. And I do believe that is what they are now being coached to do. Babs wanted a North South speed game, get the puck and get it deep and then pressure everyone everywhere which often led to the Leafs being a disaster in their own zone defensively.

Keefe on the other hand wants his team to hold onto the puck longer, keep possession, if things don't look good, circle back and regroup. Its a pendulum situation, they are now holding it too much and at times that has lead to grade a chances against. However, when the opposition has the puck in our zone and the Leafs are back positionally they have become quite good at protecting the dangerous area. So what the next step is for this team to really tighten up their system will be learning that balance of when to hold onto it and when to make the safe play and send it deep. Keep in mind, Keefe hasn't even been here for 20 games and he changed the entire system the team plays under. There are going to be growing pains and luckily for Keefe and this team, they have so much skill that they can outscore those growing pains. Come the playoffs I fully expect their defensive numbers to continue to improve.

Leafs aren't moving nylander unless it's a king's ransom nor should they. It would be nice of course to have Nylander but he broke out of his slump from last year and his value is sky high. The time to have made a run at him was 2 years ago through this summer.

That’s when we were trying Ha ha.

And it would have cost you a kings ransom at that time too. He's always had sky high value, because he's very young and has elite talent. Guys like you just wanted to get him at a bargain saying he's only a 60 point winger. He was a 60 point winger but his talent level is elite, this is the trap that so many people on here fall victim to. You look at young players and base your value off what they've done when what you should be doing is basing it off what they likely will be in their prime and on the flip side, you value veterans for what they did in their prime but not what they are capable of now and moving forward. Nylander is just 23, his best hockey is still ahead of him which is why he has always been extremely high in value. Whether people want to admit it or not.