....Why is Stone the reference? Is the argument here that no GM can get a better haul than Dorian in a super crowded market at the last minute?

Because Stone is the most recent high end winger traded. As I explained above, while Stone is the better player and came with a contract extension, I expect more teams to be in on Hall and a longer build up

To be completely honest, these are all bad and undervalue Hall. Hall is the best forward rental available and no matter what a 2020 1st round pick along with A & B prospects are going to New Jersey without taking a bad contract. Hall will most likely be retained a bit because not a lot of playoff teams can take a 6M cap hit even with deadline cap space. With that being said, the team that gets him will most likely overpay for him quite a bit. NJD will go for the highest bidder and there will be lots of bids.

2 1st round picks got traded last year. WPG moved theirs for Hayes (along with a 4th and Lemieux, an overpay but Hayes is also a center) and BUF sent SJ's to ANA with Guhle for Montour. The 2020 draft is better than the 2019 draft. Teams aren't going to be throwing out 1sts. Hall is not even a point per game player this year. He has had injury troubles. He has the MVP season 2 years ago and then a lot of injury shortened years. He's only been better than a PPG in 4 out of his 10 seasons. 2 of those he only played 33 (18-19) and 45 (12-13 lockout year)

These are all great points.
Also I think Hall gets moved to a team with the same idea as Stone
He's looking to win now, he will be paid handsomely. I really don't see him wringing out each last penny while trying to land on a multi yr contender.
His agent will say otherwise!
The team that gets him in this situation believes that puts them over and will be willing to give up some future for immediate success

The only reason he's been "put on the market" now is so that the Devils can try and get a bidding war going. I'd agree with the description, that I don't think Hall signs an extension in season, unless he really liked the team he was going to, and the new contract numbers were that enticing. The 2 biggest players here might be the Islanders and Avalanche, for different reasons, but I'd say the underdog in all this has to be Arizona. The team is doing incredibly well, all things considered, and I could see them willing to unload a bunch of assets (other than Barret Hayton) to acquire 5-6 months of Taylor Hall.

But that's obviously super arbitrary and unrealistic. Stone was amongst 8 top 6 F's traded last year. There's maybe 3-4 on the market this year, Hall included.

I mean I can easily make the argument that Hall should get a lot more in return than Rick Nash got, which was a 1st + recent 2nd rounder + middle 6 40 pt player + cheap cap dump.

Just that compensation projected on a couple teams you listed here:

Edmonton: 1st + Lavoie + Pujljujarvi + Gagner

Carolina: 1st + Rees + Dzingel

Nashville: 1st + Afanasyev + Bonino


Again...Hall should be getting a good bit MORE than that...

His agent is Darren Ferris (same as Marner's) who historically pushes his clients to go to free agency and specifically would with Hall seeing what Panarin got last year. I also could see Hall being interested in calling his shot with how being drafted by the Oilers and traded to the Devils has worked out (1 playoff appearance)

I didn't even think of Arizona but could absolutely see that trade. It would be a big boost for them on the ice and off

If Phil Kessel can help this group get better, then there is no doubt that Taylor Hall can do that, and more. The only question that remains is his continuous health, but I think in a warmer climate, with less eyes on him every steps that he takes, would certainly help. Would Arizona pony up some goods to acquire a pure rental? Hard to say. But I think this group is tired of losing and missing playoffs. With a new owner in the fold, I think you will see them pursue some top tier rentals, and go hard this offseason for top tier UFAs.

I'm not looking at top 6 forwards. I am looking at true top line wingers. This is not about what SHOULD happen but what probably will. I don't see 1st rounders moving unless it's for players with term or they are going to be in the high 20s. Yes Stone was an underpay but he is a better and younger player than Hall without the injury history and a contract extension negotiated ahead of time.

The Nash trade includes 3 seasons of Belesky as a cap dump. I'd argue that it is not comparable because of that

Yeah and I don't think they'd be too worried about retaining him if they can make the playoffs this year. I think you're definitely on to something with this

Agree but the Marner thing, while done, was sloppy. I see TH looking at the bigger picture. I think all parties walk away pretty happy.

Belesky minors cap hit is 800k...If that is holding you back I'm not really sure what to tell you.

OK, but if I am Ray Shero I am going to tell you "I don't care about your opinion. There are quite a few teams willing to send me a 2020 1st round pick for starters." (Hangs up the phone)
Assuming that Hall won't get the Devils a 1st round pick in a return is ridiculous.

Isles say yes because that's not a ton of value to give for Hall. Anything more than that I say no chance.

I forgot BOS retained half of the deal.

So basically, you're saying that it should be a 1st, a useful roster player and a cap dump for a top line winger. My take is that the league has gone away from moving 1sts in rental trades and valuing draft picks more than they did 2 years ago when that deal was made. In the end, you're taking exception to the lack of a 1st in most of my deals? I'd call all of the players I contributed useful

So Shero tells other GMs that they should ignore recent history and give him a massive package anyways? And gets left holding the bag at the trade deadline with nothing to show for a player that's leaving on July 1st? Sounds like a fireable offense to me

The Stone model isn't something NJ should be striving towards. Considering Stone immediately signed an 8 year extension with Vegas, the Sens got hosed on that transaction. It was also a year where the market was crowded (part of that was because of Ottawa having 3 big pending UFAs holding everything up). This year it's not looking nearly as competitive, teams will be bidding high for the Hart trophy winner from 2 years ago. You could make the argument that Stone is better than Hall but Hall is without a question one of the best wingers in hockey.

Late 1st (playoff/cup contending team) and a B prospect and younger roster player.

He's not going to get anywhere near some of the value you Devils fans think he's worth.
Struggling UFA with Injury troubles playing out the last year of his value contract @ 6M/season.

The Devils have NO leverage here, literally 0.

Glad I'm not the only one who feels this way!

As I've stated a few times. Yes the Sens got hosed. But if you're a GM trading for Hall you don't use that comparison?

Stone is younger, better, healthier, signed a deal right away and was having a better season when he was traded.

Also, while you can argue he's playing on a team as a whole that's struggling, Hall's GAR for the season is -1.5 placing him in a tie for 403 out of 460 forwards for the year

*EDIT* Stat is from Evolving Hockey

I'm saying it should be probably close to the Duchene deal last year: 2020 1st + cond 1st + Top 80 prospect +. And also that last year's trades are indicative of an oversaturated market for F's (probably easiest to see in the fact that Carl Hagelin and Ben Lovejoy were traded for the same compensation) and not teams changing their valuations of draft picks

Doubt NSH trades Tolvanen

Ok let me rephrase. Dorion fumbled that trade, I have more faith in Shero not doing the same. Inquiring teams may try to use the Stone trade as precedent but Shero will certainly get a better offer than anything posted above. Teams will be trying to outbid each other for Hall's services. Dorion was trying to pull off 3 big trades in one weekend and was left settling with Stone, Shero doesn't have that problem.