No to Canucks trade. Virtanen will not get traded for an older smaller forward who has only hit 30 goals once.

Your GM thinks otherwise. The two names coming up in Zucker trade talks are Virtanen and Tanev. My source is the Wild beat writer and Vancouver beat writer for The Athletic, the Wild beat writer talks about it in a podcast he's on. Here is the link, happens around 11:50-12:00

Is Morin an upgrade or downgrade from Seeler? How do you break down the Philly trade?

Right now a slight downgrade, but he has potential to be a lot better. Once upon a time he was thought of as a potential top pairing D but now I see his ceiling as a 2nd pairing guy. There isn't really anything to break down with this trade.

I just meant would it still work without Seeler and Morin?

I'd want more value than just Patrick for an extended Spurgeon and Eriksson Ek. That's why I added Seeler and Morin since Morin could be a really good player but there's some risk.

Love the Philadelphia trade. I think it helps both teams. Patrick is not meant to be a 3C and if PHI signs Hayes, it won’t be for less than 5 years.

Thanks, that's where I stand with it. The plan would be to start him at 3C, get him acclimated to our roster, and eventually move him to 2C. I'm not super hot on the Vancouver trade (why you wouldn't want to move Virtanen, a 15 goal scorer for Zucker, a 20-30 goal scorer boggles my mind) but the rumor is Virtanen and Tanev are the two Vancouver wants to trade.

I also like the Philly trade. I am not as sure about the Vancouver trade. Virtanen could break out this year or next, but he hasn't yet, so I am just not sure. Same goes for Patrick. Both have given enough to suggest they can be top 6 for a while. Just not sold on it.

I would trade Zucker for Virtanen straight up.

I know you really like him, I'm just not sold on his upside. And I know you like him because he brings grit/60 and it's always good to have a guy or two like that in your top 6, I just don't like him enough to swap him straight up for Zucker. He hasn't proven nearly as much as Zucker has.

What has Zucker really proven though?? He is a Left Shot guy who has scored 30 goals once and we have a ton of Left shot guys on this team!! There is a reason Fenton has traded so many guys from this team they hit a point and stopped developing because of the player or coach or management who knows but they all seemed to hit a brick wall in there development why?? Also Virtanen is a lot younger , cheaper, a Right Shot and a Big Body. I don't know if Virtanen is a Star but he is something different for sure!!

I actually like this team with these trades. Might not be a playoff team but what we have now has not worked plus there is some money left over and more trades can be made to help.

I think he has proven a lot. Scored 33 goals once, sure, but he has consistently scored over 20 goals the past 3 years and has scored over 20 4 out of the past 5 years. Last year was a down year for him and we traded away our only playmaker, but Jason still scored 21. One big thing with that 21 goal number is that Jason's shooting percentage was really low last year compared to his career average. Over his career, Jason has scored on 12.1% of his shots on goal. Last year, he only scored on 9.8% of his shots on goal. He had 214 shots on goal last year, so if you use his career average shooting %, he would have scored 25.8 goals. That indicates a snake-bitten player that was simply unlucky. If he had scored 26 goals last year, his value would be a lot higher on this site. I don't want to make him out to be more than he is, which (in my opinion) is a 25g/50-55p top 6 forward. You put him with a playmaker, and he could get close to 30g/60p. I can show you some fancy stats/maps if you're exceptionally interested, but to sum them up: Zucker is really valuable on the ice when it comes to scoring, last season he increased the Wild's scoring by 7%. It doesn't sound like a lot, but that's pretty good for a top 6 winger.

The thing with Virtanen is that if you look at his production after leaving the WHL, it's pretty discouraging. He scored 19 points in 65 AHL games his first year (really bad, especially for a rookie taken 6th overall) and his NHL production was stagnant the past 2 years (increased from 10g/20p to 15g/25p the past 2 years). 5 goals increase is good, but you'd really hope that assist number goes up (10 assists is pretty horrible). Statistically speaking, an increase from 20 to 25 points is pretty insignificant, even if the increase in goals is significant. Looking at the same maps as above with Zucker, Virtanen decreased the scoring by Vancouver when he was on the ice by 9%. Not what you want when you're putting a guy drafted 6th overall on the ice, especially when he's trying to replace a winger like Zucker.

Again, I don't want to make Zucker sound like some "elite" player, because he's not, but if you want a solid scoring winger that has shown he can pot 30 goals when he's put with a playmaker, Zucker is your man. Age is certainly a factor here and Virtanen does have value, I just would be very hesitant about swapping Zucker for Virtanen 1 for 1. Zucker has shown much more at the NHL level than Virtanen and for that reason I think Vancouver would have to add something like a 2nd round pick, a prospect like Gaudette, or a roster player like Tanev.

Edit: @MNBassman you might find this useful to read as to why I think Zucker has more value than Virtanen.

Thank you! I agree, this isnt a playoff team next year (or at least shouldn't be) but in the next couple seasons this would be a great young roster. Add Kaprizov to the mix (and hopefully Newhook or whoever we draft at 12) and there's a ton of talent.

A lot great info here thank you. This is the bottom line though there are way to many left shot fowards on this team and I don't want to trade any of the kids yet/we don't have much else of value besides Zucker/Spurgeon that we can trade. I know Jason would be better with a playmaker but do we have one on this roster right now? Could we land one with a Spurgeon trade?

Virtanen’s value for the Wild has more to do (for me) with the void he fills in the lineup. They don’t have a single right shot, big, fast and physical winger. I agree the Nucks probably should add, but age and draft status carries a lot of weight in the NHL, so we’ll see...

Agree completely. We need a right shot forward or two and one of them has to be a playmaker. I think Donato and Fiala showed flashes of becoming solid playmakers, but ideally we use both as trigger-men. I think Spurgeon is probably the only piece we can use to get a high-end top 6 right shot playmaker, and that was kind of the idea with the Patrick trade. He has always been seen as a jack of all trades player but I think he has a lot of upside as a playmaker. His hockey sense is really, really good and he can pull off tough passes. We will see if Fenton is willing to move Spurgeon, but if he is then I think there will be a huge market and we should all hope that Spurgeon is willing to sign an extension with his new team since he will bring more value in a trade (which is why I think Philly is such a great fit since Fletcher is the man that discovered Spurgeon and gave him the opportunity to become who is today, I imagine their relationship is really good).



Good points. Russo mentioned in his podcast that he is writing an article about this whole Vancouver trade, so hopefully that gives more insight. I think the SCF are silencing a lot of trade talk. Hopefully by the end of this week the stove starts to heat up from medium-low to medoum-high/high publicly.

Just thinking aloud... What would it take to get Patrick (as the playmaker) and Kapanen (as the shooter)? Thinking several scenarios... Ek, Zucker Spurgeon? (Since Patrick will take Ek's center spot). Any package that doesn't include Spurgeon since Fenton doesn't want to trade him? I don't think that combo has been done yet.

I'm pretty sure I've made a post like that before! Realistically speaking, Spurgeon or Dumba are probably our only tickets to getting Patrick. Obviously trading Dumba for him isn't smart, but Spurgeon with an extension should do the trick as the centerpiece.

For Kapanen, you're probably looking at Spurgeon or Dumba (I think moving either for Kapanen is a bad idea) on D and probably Greenway on forward. I'd rather Keep Greenway, but apparently Fenton was not happy with the way he played in the Calder Cup playoffs and even if we trade Zucker we have one too many LW's.

I don't think Zucker will get us either of those two. He's too much cap for Toronto unless we do something dumb like taking Zaitsev and Marleau and he's not valuable enough to bring back a potential 1C.

Edit: nevermind, I was going to post a thread with Patrick and Kapanen but I never did. I ended up posting a Philly and Anaheim trade instead, but you could swap my Anaheim trade (Greenway for Kase) out for a Toronto trade (Greenway for Kapanen).

I was initially high on Greenway for Kapanen, but have pulled back a little... but I really like investing in Patrick for 2-3 years from now, and keep thinking about what could pair well with him.

I'd like to keep Greenway as well and I think Fenton does too, but we will see I guess. Patrick is extremely intriguing. From what I've seen he has flashed a lot of high-end skill but hasn't been consistent with it. If he can put it together he could be a 70p 1C which would be fantastic for this franchise.