Quantity does not equal quality.

Nolan and the STL 5th aren't anything. Johnsson and Borgman are essentially there to pay for the Blues to take Zaitsev. That leaves you with the 2019 1st, a deferred 3rd Round Pick, and the only think keeping Boston College afloat for Pietrangelo. I don't think the Blues entertain that for a second.

You have the first you need prospect and assets or Dermott and you get it done

Early front runner for most ridiculously idiotic thing I’ve seen in 2019, and I doubt it will be caught.

Zaitsev at his full cap hit has negative trade value

Johnson and Borgman are both fine as throw ins but don’t project to be anything other than middle of the lineup players.

Trading a goalie prospect will never bring back value as goalies are a total crapshoot. They may look like they will be good now but never make it as starters. Look at Fucale, Campbell, Tokarski, Visentine, Subban. The list goes on. Woll has no value.

So you’re trading a mid round first and a 3rd that’s three years away with a couple throw ins and a horrendous contract for one of the best RHD in the league, a cap dump aaaand a 5th.

Take off you’re blue and white glasses and reevaluate the way you look at the sport of hockey. I suggest looking into tennis where there are no trades and you’re lack of intelligence won’t get exposed like this.

Ya. What he said. Leafs over valueing their players again

Or they can just wait until his contract ends, he will be slowly on the decline by then. Anyways other teams can overpay for a couple seasons, leafs sit 2nd in the league. Sandin and Liljegren sweet Swedes

Zaitsev is 7th overall in the league for blocked shots and he and Gardner have let in less goals than any other top 4 defensive pairing in the league and If you think that is because of Gardiner I wouldn’t be too surprised given your seeming lack of knowledge of player value. He has been asked to play a heavily defensive role at which he has been excelling at.

The trade value here is about right on. I think the the blues would rather have kappanen with his output this season but johnsson’s Value is extremely close to kappy to anyone who has ever scouted the leafs. They play a very similar game one is just a bit more snake bitten than the other.

As far as doing the trade I think it is a horrible idea for the leafs to give up assets and futures on such a short term reward. The idea that this year is toronto’s Only shot at the cup is ridiculous especially when you look at how dominant Tampa has been this year. The blues may or may not get a better offer for pietrangelo and that is only if they are even thinking about shopping him as I know his relationships with management is very strong.

3 stars for changing the same old trade up just slightly. I’ve done a couple of draft trades setting things up for next season if Lilly isn’t ready you can check those also a few I made a little while back with The Nucks and wild. May give you some ideas for something different.

Yea, I don't know why so many people on so down on Zaitsev. He's plays big defensive minutes for the Leafs. He's certainly not a cap dump and fair value at 4.5m. Leafs (or any team) are going to sent cap back to the Blues in any trade. Fact is Blues have very little leverage in any PIetrngelo trade. He has a full NTC. What other team can afford him this and next. More importantly what teams/cities will Pietrangelo be willing to be traded to. Leafs aren't dismantled their team for 1.5 year rental. Blues can finish out the playoffs with him this year and probably next year if they want.
Six playoff round wins in eight years as a Blue. Proof than having a so called stud Dman doesn't necessarily get you success as a team.

Hahahahaha oh man you’re drinking the koolaide man if you think this is the best offer St. Louis is going to get, you couldn’t be more wrong about that. I’m even more amused that you think it’s a bad idea for the leafs, like is one of the players your dad or something? My god man. This is a third pairing NHL d on an absolutely disgusting contract along with two AHL guys that will maaaaaybe one day slot into the middle of the lineup, plus a mid first round pick for one of the best RHD on earth. You’re absolutley delusional man. I think I’m dumber for having taken the time to try to figure out that logic.

my 2 cents:

Pietrangelo >>> Zaitsev >>>> cap dump

can we agree on this? Probably not...but IMO anyone who thinks Pietrangelo wouldn't be a huge boost to the Leafs' D is undervaluing him. Similarly, anyone who thinks Zaitsev is a cap dump has probably based their research solely on ACGM teams made between Jan 2018 and Oct. 2018, and not actually watching him play this year.

That being said, I don't think the Leafs can bring on another player with term without moving out a sizeable contract...so whether Zaitsev is used as cap balast in this trade or moved in a separate deal, I don't think you can add one without removing the other...but maybe Zaitsev is someone they could keep for this season and then move in the offseason if needed.

Now...again IMO....a top pairing D-man that's 28 on a reasonable contract will likely take a 1st, young roster player + top prospect. I don't think the above proposal quite meets that..but it's not miles off either.

Next point...I don't think it's fair to say that, since St. Louis isn't winning with Pietrangelo and Parayko on D...how can we value/trust them to be able to be key contributors on a winning team. It's certainly a risk in any trade made...whether the talent you're bringing in fits your system/style or whether their past failures/successes can be attributed more to their abilities or the system they're coming from. It's why you have pro scouts to help you make that decision....but I don't think you can make blanket assumptions like that. Edmonton hasn't had much succsess with McDavid leading them but almost everyone agrees he's the best player in the league. Perhaps solid goaltending plays a big role for both Edmonton and St. Louis....either way, Pietrangelo is largely viewed around the league as a #1D man

Next point....St. Louis is in no rush to trade him...so any substandard offers are not going to be considered. If team's come with their best foot forward this TDL and the Blues think it's just as good or better than they will get at next year's deadline...then I have no doubts they'll entertain offers. Maybe an offer like the one above gets a conversation started, but if the Leafs want Pietrangelo on their team this year, I think the final asking price will be higher. Likely at least a Johnsson + Liljegren + drat picks conditional on Leafs' success

So...would meeting the likely asking price for AP be worth it? He only has 1.5yrs left and how does he fit in long term? IMO, the leafs are doing just fine with their current roster...which is one that has performed extremely well despite having key players out for long stretches. If it's me, I probably don't make any major adds this year and make some minor depth moves at the deadline....but would I be upset to see AP in the leaf uni? No...it would be hard to not be excited at that possibility.

Take your troll hat off and actually provide some insight for a change.

1. No one suggested this would be the best offer St. Louis would receive
2. If you had any understanding of the Leafs' situation, you'd know that adding a big salary like Pietrangelo for this and next year while giving up on prospects might hurt the team once his contract runs up and those prospects might be capable of contributing to the Leafs while on more favourable contracts. The argument isn't whether AP makes the Leafs' D better right now...it's whether the short term improvement will ultimately be worth it 2 seasons from now...especially when the Leafs are performing just fine right now
3. You can certainly have your own opinion on Zaitsev and his contract. But it's just that...your opinion...I don't think 30 actual NHL GM's would evaluate it as 'disgusting'...I'm sure there's some that would have no interest in taking it on, while other's would think he's a top 4 d-man they could acquire from the Leafs for a decent price given their cap situation.

I try not to argue with people who don’t make intelligent arguments but I will try to sort this out.

First of all I said may or may not get a better offer so please before you go off on a tangent trying to accuse other people of being dumb take the time to ensure that you are in fact literate.

Petro has a full NTC so who is he waiving to play for? Do they have the assets and space? More than likely they will be taking money back for the deal to work.

So the blues get a speedy skilled rookie on pace for 20 goals and 40 points a 1st a 3rd decent B 2way defender prospect with a bit of experience and a max of 2nd pair ceiling and a solid shut down second pair rhd to play behind Parayko. They also get a solid A goalie prospect which to be honest is not really needed much like the 5th and Nolan coming back.

So they get 12 years roughly of control (not including woll) and we receive 1.5 years of petro (not including Nolan) that pick is probably good enough to get Leason. So not a bad haul at all considering the blues could re sign him if they want to in 2020, I’m not sure he fits the leafs long term on an 8m+ contract.

And don’t even get me started in his less than stellar start to the season and now an injury he just returned from.
The issue is people have grand illusion on what trade values are. From what I have seen on here most people don’t consider term or factor it in at all.

Agree about 99% I think the deal is pretty close to fair but I also am not sure that they move him for just a “fair” deal. Instead of an A prospect they get a B and 2 roster players rather than one. Why I think the deal works is zaitsev has shown what he can do for a player like Gardiner and I think can play a similar role with Vince Dunn. That being said I still agree that blues may find the offer a bit light and to the leafs Petro can only be 1.5yr rental. We are not going the Drew Doughty route.

I still think this is a bad move for the leafs. Small depth moves till things open up.

If you guys actually think that a couple low end "prospects" if we can still call players their age prospects + an albatross contract and draft picks is enough for a top 10NHL defenseman then I dont know what to tell you

If you think that this trade is making the leafs off in the long term the short term or any term due to cap, depth, or length of contract, then I dont know what to tell you.

If you have successfully brainswashed yourselves into thinking Zaitsev is a top 4 D then I dont know what to tell you.

You guys are so wrong about so many things and youre pretending to justify it with things that if you have ever seen a hockey game in your life you know not to be true. What flavor is the koolaide over there in Toronto? My god youre all completely mad.

This guy is ridiculous. Got his leafs goggles on. I want some of what you are smoking it sounds like one fun time. Probably thinks Matthews is gunna sign 6 mil per year. God bless drugs lol

Only one brain washed here is you for believing that your opinion is the only one that could possibly be right.

Try reading the actual words in the posts and stop acting like a clown.

I think the clown here is you. You are justifying a garbage trade. That's like if the Oilers offered kris Russell, tyler benson, nolan vesey and a first for pietro +. Look at that deal, do you think it is fair? Probably not, so then this zaitsev deal is no better. Take off the leafs blinders and try to be unbiased for a change. Zaitsev is a joke and has horrible value, the other two players dont have much value either and then there is a late 1st round pick. Like crazy and delusional to say the least.

Im reading your words man they don't make an ounce of sense. When I say I dont know what to tell you I very much mean it, youre clearly beyond reasoning, and I dont mean to make it seem as though I didn't consider that your opinion potentially could be right because I tried, every way I look at it the proposed trade we are looking at is totally lopsided, every way I look at it Zaitsev has negative value, this is a fight you have to give up man, you're embarrassing youself. Call me a clown all you want but if you asked any non-leafs fan they are going to laugh at this.

Very insightful

Yet completely true

Clearly neither of you are reading anything I am posting and just enjoy trolling. If you had any semlance of competency, you would see that I've posted here (and several other places), that this deal wouldn't make sense for St. Louis...you'd see several times over I've said the minimum ask for someone like Pietrangelo is a 1st, young roster player and A-prospect...and that this trade proposal didn't accomplish that. I also state in several spots how St. Louis isn't likely under any pressure to make a trade at this point unless the offer coming their way is substantial.

Now...you can both have your opinions on Zaitsev...and that's fine...but it doesn't make you accurate...simply opinionated....if you both want to think you know better than Mike Babcock who puts him out there for all high pressure defensive situations for 20+ min a night, or Lou Lamoriello who signed him to his current deal, you can cling to those beliefs. Or you can simply troll-on and say he's a dumpster fire with negative trade value.

So don't spout off on how you're having troubles compreheding my logic when you're not actually compreheding the words being written



Oh...it's true simply because you say it is. Okay. Yessir...Pardon us. We're only the ones that watch him play every night,

Haha so one opinion is wrong but yours is right? Hypocritical. And I also watch him every night. It's not an opinion to notice when one player sucks and is a cap dump on someone. Sure, everything said is just opinions, but your opinion is lent just right cause you say so. This isnt trolling it's called realistic and unbiased. You just dont like that cause as a leafs fan you cant handle the fact that zaitsev is valueless

Nope...never claimed to be right...again...try scrolling up to my original post in this thread...and tell me if:

a) I am stating facts or use "IMO" when sharing my thoughts
b) Say I agree that the trade is fair which I am being accused of
c) Say that this is the best offer St. Louis would receive
d) Say in any of my replies that I'm right and someone else is wrong

If either of you are interested in having an intellectual conversation about any of my opinions that you disagree with, great..I'm cool with that...and I'm cool with anyone that disagrees with me. But it's pretty hard to misinterpret what I've written above so inaccurately as you guys have done, so I doubt there's any interest in actually having that kind of discussion