Parakyo is an upgrade over Gardiner defensively but a big step back offensively and Nylander is about 4 times better than Kyrou. This isn't a good trade for TO. How about they just sign Nylander and end this stupidity.

I’ve seen you on here so much and the fact that you think this trade isn’t good for the leafs baffles me. I’m assuming you’re trolling at this point

Leafs don't need an upgrade Offensively tho. They have Juggernauts up front that have already proved they can carry the load. They need another Horse in the back end to play with Reilly and reduce the minutes that Hainsey plays. Gardiner will walk next year and STL will be one of the teams that will be looking to sign him as they will have alot of cap with Boumeester coming off of it

Sure they don't need to add offence but is the team better with Nylander and Gardiner or Parayko (because if Kyrou can't make St Louis, he certaintly won't make TO)? Without even a shadow of a doubt, they are much better with Nylander and Gardiner. Sure he's going to walk next year but even if it is Nylander for Parayko I am not sure that's an even trade. I think Parayko is good but is he great? I am not sure. Its really hard to say with those middle pair guys. Sure they look good when they don't have to take on all the toughest minutes, (Pietrangelo does that) but how would he fair with increased minutes and expectations in the hockey mad market that is TO?

Everyone on here looks at 2 things, who needs offence and who has defence, and then they make trades operating on this weird fantasy that defenceman are worth more than wingers in all cases. And they cling to that despite knowing full well that the defenceman people are trading for Nylander will never make the same money as Nylander. If they are equal or better than him, they'll make more than him. So if you aren't willing to pay these guys more than 7 million, then they aren't equal.

Not at all, I just don't subscribe to the defence is worth more than offense that so many people on here see as law. Nylander has numbers not far off from what Kucherov had when he was just starting out, he's a top end player and he's 22. All these fans who keep trying to trade him to their team for a 2nd pair defenceman and say that is fair are blatantly just wanting to see a trade they hands down win. And if I am a GM in the NHL, I want to walk away thinking that I won or I came out even. This isn't an even trade. Gardiner could arguably be worth the same amount as Parayko and Kyrou can't earn an NHL spot. That isn't a fair trade. This doesn't improve TO, it makes them worse.

Parayko is a very good player, no arguements here, I'd love to see him on the team. However, he is not a #1 stud, he's a guy I'd place in the really weird "potential top pair" guys, guys who can be a good counterpart for a real #1. TO has Rielly who is an absolute stud, so they don't need a #1, and really Zaitsev and Gardiner are also guys who are 2nd pair players that can play against top players and not get ripped to shreds on a nightly basis. Parayko is essentially that, a guy who won't dazzle anyone but give you good play in his own zone against top players. Nylander is so hard to replace but a middle pair guy who can play higher up if he had the opportunity better not cost a top end offensive talent.

Can we stop with urban legend that Hainsey needs his minutes reduced (this year). Last year, yes he was overworked because Babcock only trusted four player on the PK...and Zaitsev was out with injury so it three players....Hainsy, Polak and Really. This year, Hainsey, is playing under 20 minutes a game. So who do you want play and have their minutes increased?
The other urban legend that the Blues have all these great Dmen. Really? Shouldn't it shown in the standings?
Do teams really want to pay Nylander 7.5m?

I stopped reading after you said Gardiner could be arguably worth as much as Parayko my lord

Yep, it's all Parayko's fault .

If we're using the standings to determine trade values, I'll take Yannick Weber over Parayko - his team has allowed the fewest goals against!

If anyone thinks that the Blues would be willing to give up Parayko for a winger, they're sorely mistaken.

The difference between me and you, is I'm taking Parayko over Rielly. Not sure why you gotta paint all these crazy narratives all over this site, but if you think Parayko is nothing but a 2nd pair guy, and Kyrou "can't earn an NHL spot" when he's 20 years old. BFD. I've been watching the kid for a few years now, I'm not concerned about his development, and he has better skills than most top 6 guys in the league right now. Probably close to what Nylander was at 20 years old. So if Nylander is Kucherov, then I guess Kyrou is too.

He's not, but what he is, is far better offensively than Parayko. So he's not exactly a huge drop off, he's different. Nylander compared to Kyrou though? That isn't remotely close.

Actually I understand why Blues wouldn't trade Parayko for Nylander. I don't rate Nylander as high as many Leaf fans, and I think 7.5m is 1m too high. And the Blues (or any team) need good cost efficient players. Blues seem to good enough forwards, why would they need to add another? For some reason so many think the Leafs need to their bottom end Dmen with other teams bottom enders, thinking it would it going to improve the Leafs, it doesn't.

You're absolutely right my friend. It just doesn't work from STL's side. We're already getting eaten alive on defense, no reason to take away our best defensive d-man. (Maybe taking away the coach would be where to start...)

In the year after Nylander was drafted, he started in Sweden before moving to the AHL where he scored 32 points in 27 games. As an 18/19 year old. As a 19/20 year old (He turned 20 during the playoffs) he played 32 AHL games where he scored 45 points and 22 NHL games where he scored 13 points. In his year 20/21 year (Kyrou's current year) Nylander scored 61 points. So no Kyrou isn't where Nylander was at the same age. Kyrou is in about the same boat as Ho Sang is currently. Talented young guys but they haven't proven they can be NHLers yet.

If you are taking Parayko over Rielly, there is no point in discussiny anything further. Rielly is both younger, and the current front runner for the Norris, Parayko is not.

I think the reason a lot of people are bringing up TOR's defense isn't that they think they desperately need to make changes, but it's just that if they really would trade Nylander (doubt it), they most logical move would be for a defenseman.

I don't think they would either, I think they will and should keep Parayko because they need him more than a winger. With that being said, I think St Louis needs to take a hard look in the mirror and figure out what kind of team they are. To me they look like a team that has one foot in the Kings style of team and one foot in a speed game and it just isn't meshing.

Yeah, that is totally the logic most people seem to have and many have the mind of if you trade for a need, then overpaying isn't a problem its just the way its done. That sentiment is stupid.

If your argument is gonna be about points in minor leagues and Norris frontrunners in November, I guess we really are done here. There's a lot that goes into player evaluation and trade values, and trading Kyrou before he's ever given a real shot would be dumb as hell. Getting production from guys on ELC's is a pretty big part of the game these days, and that's what we'll get out of Kyrou.

Pietrangelo was the Norris frontrunner this time last year and the Blues were in first place in the league. Team success is what drives the narrative for individual awards at this point. Good luck for Rielly to sustain his 14% shooting percentage, though.

I not a big believer in the rating of Dmen as # 1, 2 etc. Even a teams worse Dmen play 14 minutes a game and it's usually at even strength. So even your worse Dmen better be NHL competent, cause you can't shelter them all game long, especially on the road. Too many Leafs posts seem to concentrate on getting this stud and often expensive Dman. Leafs Dmen are playing well enough this year. Would I like another competent Dman, especially at RHD? Yep. But most teams don't enough Dmen to trade. Might have to wait closer to TDL when non contenders are sellers.

You mentioned the sharp shooting Reilly. In previous years, I didn't think his shooting was any better than average. This year he's Bobby Orr

I agree that Rielly is not going to maintain this pace, he won't flutter a puck towards the net and have it just float in very often. That being said, he's a beast and absolutely a #1 stud defenceman. And he's 24 years old. I think everyone forgets that when they talk about him. He's been in the League since he was 19 which is pretty unusual for a defenceman and he's gotten better each year. Parayko is a very good defenceman but he isn't at this stage of his career a #1 stud and to be honest, I am not sure he has the offensive pedigree to be a true #1.

Kyrou I am sure will be a good player, who knows if he can put it all together and really shine in the NHL or not, but I think he'll at the very least be a good offensive player, he'll have to really make a jump over the next season or two to be in the ballpark of a guy like Nylander though.

I want to make it clear that I don't think Parayko is any part of the problem in St Louis. He's a terrific player.

This is pretty accurate, which is why i think a new coach with a new system is really the only option at this point. Can't start blowing up the roster that was just put together. What they could do is find someone with a new approach on how to put the pieces together. Give the team a fresh point of view. Then, we could actually have an identity. (To me, we have a nice mix of big bodies and speed/skill not unlike some of the best teams out there. And our defense when used properly is above-average - again, a good mix of puck movers and big trees)

Yeo has had plenty of time to figure out how to make things work, and now we're stuck in mediocrity after a really aggressive offseason. Yeo has to go.

I've mentioned a few times that people through around 'Top Pair Defenceman' around a lot and its such a empty phrase. Anyone who plays on a top pair is then technically a top pair defenceman and most are guys that won't hurt you while playing tough minutes. That doesn't make them exceptional players who are worth massive hauls, because there are a lot of guys who play on 2nd pairs and in a pinch can play against top guys and not get completely destroyed. Zaitsev falls into that category for crying out loud.

As for Rielly being Bobby Orr, he won't keep the pace for shooting percentage but even at his career mark, he's increased his shooting from around 1.5 per game to over 3 so far this season so he'll keep potting them this season as long as he stays healthy.

How would you rate Edmonson? I am curios because I haven't seen a lot of him. On paper I only see 2 really good defenceman in St Louis. Pietrangelo and Parayko are great but after that I think the talent really falls off. But I don't know a tonne about Edmonson

I can't lie, I enjoyed the Rielly-Parayko pairing at the WCOH an awful lot. Those 2 actually complement each other very well, but I prefer the defensive guy. It's interesting to measure Parayko's offense though. When Shattenkirk left, Pietrangelo saw a big uptick in his offense (not just on PP). I think Parayko's offense is somewhat held back by his position on the depth chart. Keep in mind Parayko has 15 pts in 16 games for Canada in the World Championships. His role on the team probably has a lot to do with his perception.

Reilly sure looks confident with the puck this year. In previous years, the Reilly didn't play as much on the PP, as Gardiner and someone else played the points. With forward Marner playing right side point, it looks like Babcock wanted a good Dmen on the ice with Marner.....hence Reilly's increased PP time.

I'm not saying GAA, telling a complete story but the Leafs are 4th in GAA,....that's fourth best. Seems to me they have some competence throughout the whole defence. And that includes NHL rookie Ozzie and Dermot who hasn't played a full year in the NHL.