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Try to change my mind

Créé par: sk540
Équipe: 2018-19 Flyers de Philadelphie
Date de création initiale: 14 mai 2018
Publié: 14 mai 2018
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Signatures de joueurs autonomes
RFAANSCAP HIT
41 000 000 $
3825 000 $
3925 000 $
3900 000 $
3775 000 $
54 500 000 $
UFAANSCAP HIT
58 250 000 $
59 350 000 $
22 000 000 $
Transactions
1.
PHI
  1. Choix de 3e ronde en 2019 (BUF)
  2. Choix de 4e ronde en 2020 (BUF)
BUF
  1. Elliott, Brian
  2. Choix de 2e ronde en 2020 (PHI)
2.
PHI
  1. Choix de 5e ronde en 2019 (OTT)
Détails additionnels:
The rights to Mark Stone are also included here where we sign to a longer contract
OTT
  1. Simmonds, Wayne
  2. Choix de 2e ronde en 2019 (PHI)
  3. Choix de 3e ronde en 2019 (NJD)
3.
PHI
  1. Choix de 3e ronde en 2019 (FLA)
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2020
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2021
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TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2175 000 000 $67 696 667 $0 $4 537 500 $7 303 333 $

Formation

Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
4 137 500 $4 137 500 $
AD, C
NMC
UFA - 4
9 350 000 $9 350 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 7
4 500 000 $4 500 000 $
AD
UFA - 1
894 167 $894 167 $ (Bonis de performance425 000 $$425K)
AD, AG
UFA - 1
925 000 $925 000 $ (Bonis de performance2 650 000 $$3M)
C, AD
UFA - 2
8 250 000 $8 250 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 6
925 000 $925 000 $ (Bonis de performance212 500 $$212K)
AG
UFA - 2
4 333 333 $4 333 333 $
C
UFA - 4
1 750 000 $1 750 000 $
C, AD, AG
UFA - 1
825 000 $825 000 $
AG
UFA - 1
962 500 $962 500 $
C, AG
UFA - 1
2 000 000 $2 000 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 3
900 000 $900 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 1
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
894 167 $894 167 $ (Bonis de performance850 000 $$850K)
DG
UFA - 1
8 250 000 $8 250 000 $
DD
UFA - 8
1 000 000 $1 000 000 $
DG
UFA - 2
4 500 000 $4 500 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 5
2 500 000 $2 500 000 $
G
UFA - 1
863 333 $863 333 $ (Bonis de performance400 000 $$400K)
DG/DD
UFA - 1
2 345 000 $2 345 000 $
DD
UFA - 2
925 000 $925 000 $
G
UFA - 2

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14 mai 2018 à 11 h 46
#1
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You're underpaying everyone except Carlson.
14 mai 2018 à 12 h 5
#2
Banni
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There is zero need for Carlson on this team. We have 4-5 puck moving D men already. Tavares and Stone are not getting paid enough and that deal won't get you stone in the 1st place.
14 mai 2018 à 12 h 8
#3
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Worse than 0% chance JT signs for that amount
14 mai 2018 à 12 h 13
#4
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Out of curiosity, what are the contracts going to look like the following season. Because the Flyers have to resign Provorov, Konecny, Sanheim, and potentially Laughton.
14 mai 2018 à 12 h 21
#5
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Quoting: NickC1988
You're underpaying everyone except Carlson.


How am I underpaying everyone when everyone I have signed is getting significant raises? JT still gets a raise here, but joins a team with Giroux who he has said in the past would love to play with. Also allows him to stay close to the home he has had his whole career and joins a young and upcoming team. How much will be the top offer he gets, 10.5, 11? So in the grand scheme he gives himself a chance to win a cup, just like Parise and Suter did in Minnesota when they both said no to higher offers.
14 mai 2018 à 12 h 23
#6
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Quoting: CaseOfTastykakes
Out of curiosity, what are the contracts going to look like the following season. Because the Flyers have to resign Provorov, Konecny, Sanheim, and potentially Laughton.


^This. Pipe dreams are great, but this isn't the NBA...no luxury tax if you go over the cap. Two years down the road Hexy will be trying to dump Voracek and anyone else he can just to get back under the cap...it's not ideal
14 mai 2018 à 12 h 24
#7
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Quoting: DirtyDangles
There is zero need for Carlson on this team. We have 4-5 puck moving D men already. Tavares and Stone are not getting paid enough and that deal won't get you stone in the 1st place.


Zero need for a dominant offensive right handed, in his prime defender who has also significant raised his defensive game in the playoffs to handle some of the top opposing players on a night in night out basis? Just because we have Ghost does not mean we have 4-5 other puck moving defensemen. Who are these 4-5 puck moving defensemen, Gudas?? MacDonald?? Hagg?? It's Ghost and Sanheim. Provorov is an all around good d man, Gudas, MacDonald, and Hagg are all of the more defensive variety. If you really think we have 4-5 puck moving D men, fine, but good ones? Not even close, Carlson puts us over the top here, AND also fixes the 2nd PP unit or allows us to have a RHD on the first unit which will slot more talent on the 2nd unit. Either way its a win win, and north of 8 million is a fair deal for him, almost a 200% raise.
14 mai 2018 à 12 h 27
#8
Banni
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Quoting: sk540
Zero need for a dominant offensive right handed, in his prime defender who has also significant raised his defensive game in the playoffs to handle some of the top opposing players on a night in night out basis? Just because we have Ghost does not mean we have 4-5 other puck moving defensemen. Who are these 4-5 puck moving defensemen, Gudas?? MacDonald?? Hagg?? It's Ghost and Sanheim. Provorov is an all around good d man, Gudas, MacDonald, and Hagg are all of the more defensive variety. If you really think we have 4-5 puck moving D men, fine, but good ones? Not even close, Carlson puts us over the top here, AND also fixes the 2nd PP unit or allows us to have a RHD on the first unit which will slot more talent on the 2nd unit. Either way its a win win, and north of 8 million is a fair deal for him, almost a 200% raise.


Ghost, Provy, Sanheim, Myers and even Hagg has moved the puck well. Ghost plays the right side with Provy and that shouldn't change. Carlson by no means puts us over the top, all he does is put us in Cap trouble.
14 mai 2018 à 12 h 28
#9
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Quoting: CaseOfTastykakes
Out of curiosity, what are the contracts going to look like the following season. Because the Flyers have to resign Provorov, Konecny, Sanheim, and potentially Laughton.


Sanheim and Laughton have not proved to anyone they are going to get big long term deals. Obviously the same cannot be said about Provorov. I would imagine Provorov getting a raise a little higher than what Ghost got, and Konecny with all his potential, albeit without the numbers to get that big raise, I would anticipate something that Mark Stone got when he got his raise, something in the mid 3's. With the inevitability of the cap going up, Jordan Weal and Neuvirth contracts gone, as well as Gudas the year after and another raise in the cap, plus the 2+ million we still have in space for the current year, our cap situation will be tight, but our team will be set.
14 mai 2018 à 12 h 30
#10
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Quoting: DirtyDangles
Ghost, Provy, Sanheim, Myers and even Hagg has moved the puck well. Ghost plays the right side with Provy and that shouldn't change. Carlson by no means puts us over the top, all he does is put us in Cap trouble.


Have you watched Carlson play? Myers hasn't even played on minute in the NHL, Hagg is not a puck mover, and you're really going to already say Sanheim is a good puck mover. Just because their scouting reports say they are puck movers doesn't mean they have the skill on the level of a Carlson. When I played ice hockey in high school my scouting report said I was a defensive dman and my defense was pretty offensive to say the least. Gotta wait till they play the game first before you categorize them as something.
14 mai 2018 à 12 h 30
#11
Banni
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Quoting: sk540
Sanheim and Laughton have not proved to anyone they are going to get big long term deals. Obviously the same cannot be said about Provorov. I would imagine Provorov getting a raise a little higher than what Ghost got, and Konecny with all his potential, albeit without the numbers to get that big raise, I would anticipate something that Mark Stone got when he got his raise, something in the mid 3's. With the inevitability of the cap going up, Jordan Weal and Neuvirth contracts gone, as well as Gudas the year after and another raise in the cap, plus the 2+ million we still have in space for the current year, our cap situation will be tight, but our team will be set.


Provy, $7.5 mil. Konency, $4.5-5.5 mil depending on next years performance. Hextall will likely try and lock up Sanheim cheap if he can so 5 x $2.75 seems reasonable. Laughton will get a raise to around $1.25-1.5 likely.
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14 mai 2018 à 12 h 31
#12
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Quoting: Whatuplilpup
^This. Pipe dreams are great, but this isn't the NBA...no luxury tax if you go over the cap. Two years down the road Hexy will be trying to dump Voracek and anyone else he can just to get back under the cap...it's not ideal


Two years down the line you can comfortably estimate 3.5-4 million more in cap space, plus the 2.5 current cap space we have, also with Gudas, Neuvirth, and Weal coming off the cap, that 10+ million will be where you pay for the raises of the young kids.
14 mai 2018 à 12 h 31
#13
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Quoting: sk540
Have you watched Carlson play? Myers hasn't even played on minute in the NHL, Hagg is not a puck mover, and you're really going to already say Sanheim is a good puck mover. Just because their scouting reports say they are puck movers doesn't mean they have the skill on the level of a Carlson. When I played ice hockey in high school my scouting report said I was a defensive dman and my defense was pretty offensive to say the least. Gotta wait till they play the game first before you categorize them as something.


I don't care about Carlson's skill level! We have Ghost who is offensive minded and can produce at Carlson's rate and we have Provy who is just unreal at both ends of the ice. NO NEED FOR CARLSON!

Also, I am pretty sure that Hextall will listen to the scouting reports. Saying scouting reports are useless is hilarious!
14 mai 2018 à 12 h 33
#14
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Quoting: DirtyDangles
Provy, $7.5 mil. Konency, $4.5-5.5 mil depending on next years performance. Hextall will likely try and lock up Sanheim cheap if he can so 5 x $2.75 seems reasonable. Laughton will get a raise to around $1.25-1.5 likely.


You're crazy if you think Konecny gets 4.5 mil or more with his stats. You're not gonna pay him based off potential alone and remembers he was a healthy scratch and played with the third line this at multiple points over the last two years. Provy getting 7.5 mil is also not gonna happen, he's gonna get paid as much as Keith and Doughty and Seabrook?? Cmon, he's a third year player, who being very good, this is his first contract. He will get something north of Ghost, I would say 5-6 mil just to take away some of his early UFA years. Sanheim at 2.75 is laughable to when he was benched for the first half of the year and the last couple games of the playoffs. I understand the potential is there, but these numbers are all overpayments. I'd let Laughton walk before I gave him more than 1.5 mil so thats about right.
14 mai 2018 à 12 h 36
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Quoting: DirtyDangles
I don't care about Carlson's skill level! We have Ghost who is offensive minded and can produce at Carlson's rate and we have Provy who is just unreal at both ends of the ice. NO NEED FOR CARLSON!

Also, I am pretty sure that Hextall will listen to the scouting reports. Saying scouting reports are useless is hilarious!


You're missing my point about the scouting reports. Just because it says a rookie is a puck moving defensemen in juniors and the AHL, doesn't mean he will be one at the NHL level. He's gotta play games first and Myers, Sanheim, and Hagg barely have a combined full season under them. You want to count us having something that we aren't even sure we have yet? OK fine, but the league will pass you by if that's all you do. The Kings went out and got Carter, Richards, and Gaborik when they won. The Penguins went out and got Kessel, Schultz and Hornqvist. Teams grow their young guys and then strike when they see a good roster player available. Although the Caps can't get passed the second round, they are always a cup contender since they also go out and get players like Niskanen, Oshie, Shattenkirk, Williams, etc. And this year it's proven to help.
14 mai 2018 à 12 h 40
#16
Banni
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Quoting: sk540
You're crazy if you think Konecny gets 4.5 mil or more with his stats. You're not gonna pay him based off potential alone and remembers he was a healthy scratch and played with the third line this at multiple points over the last two years. Provy getting 7.5 mil is also not gonna happen, he's gonna get paid as much as Keith and Doughty and Seabrook?? Cmon, he's a third year player, who being very good, this is his first contract. He will get something north of Ghost, I would say 5-6 mil just to take away some of his early UFA years. Sanheim at 2.75 is laughable to when he was benched for the first half of the year and the last couple games of the playoffs. I understand the potential is there, but these numbers are all overpayments. I'd let Laughton walk before I gave him more than 1.5 mil so thats about right.


Do you even follow hockey?

Konecny put up 47 points after spending half the year on the 3rd/4th line.
Provy is one of the top D men in the league already so absolutely he will get more if we want him locked in for 8 years. Or you can pay him 5 for 3 years then pay him 10 per after that.
As for Sanheim, do you really think that just because he was sent down earlier in the year that he isn't good? When he was in the lineup for the playoffs he was probably our 4th best D man.
You would let a solid bottom 6 player walk instead of paying him $1.5 per when we have cap room to spare?

I'm sorry but you have no clue what you are talking about!
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14 mai 2018 à 12 h 50
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Tavares is definitely getting 10+.

Neuvirth and Lyon is an awful awful goalie tandem. Neuvy will probably be injured for at least a half of the season and Lyon is most likely not an NHL goalie.

Carlson is alright, but that is an overpayment. Both the term and the cap hit.
14 mai 2018 à 13 h 30
#18
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Quoting: sk540
How am I underpaying everyone when everyone I have signed is getting significant raises? JT still gets a raise here, but joins a team with Giroux who he has said in the past would love to play with. Also allows him to stay close to the home he has had his whole career and joins a young and upcoming team. How much will be the top offer he gets, 10.5, 11? So in the grand scheme he gives himself a chance to win a cup, just like Parise and Suter did in Minnesota when they both said no to higher offers.


I can see JT getting 12-13 in MTL.
14 mai 2018 à 13 h 59
#19
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Quoting: DirtyDangles
Do you even follow hockey?

Konecny put up 47 points after spending half the year on the 3rd/4th line.
Provy is one of the top D men in the league already so absolutely he will get more if we want him locked in for 8 years. Or you can pay him 5 for 3 years then pay him 10 per after that.
As for Sanheim, do you really think that just because he was sent down earlier in the year that he isn't good? When he was in the lineup for the playoffs he was probably our 4th best D man.
You would let a solid bottom 6 player walk instead of paying him $1.5 per when we have cap room to spare?

I'm sorry but you have no clue what you are talking about!


Nah man don't follow hockey, just know more than you clearly. Have you ever heard what goes into negotiations for free agency, the flyers will absolutely use the reasons I listed to pay less. Sanheim our 4th best dman?? That's not saying much with our defense since after ghost and provy who else is there, he possibly could be on our team, but not on any other teams. And he was scratched in the playoffs, apparently others with more hockey experience than this whole site agrees with me, if he was in fact one of our best dman he would've played every game since we needed major help.
I didn't know 47 points in one full NHL season warranted a 5.5 million dollar contract, please site examples of this? Ghost got a 4.5 million contract after breaking several rookie records and had a double digit games point streak, and he got a million less than a guy who has one nhl year and scored 47 points?? OK brother, please stop. Provy is our best dman, but right now he's one of the best in the entire league?!?! I can easily name 20 other dman at this point right now who are better. Yes he's only 21 years old, yes for a 21 year old he is pretty amazing, but in no way shape or form is he going to get a 7.5 million dollar contract, more money than some of the best dmen in the league.

You are beyond delusional if you think anything of what you said, minus your Laughton point, is anywhere near rational. Not saying that signing 3 free agents and making 3 trades is rational, but its possible. What you're spewing is nonsense.
14 mai 2018 à 14 h 1
#20
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Quoting: Radovan
Tavares is definitely getting 10+.

Neuvirth and Lyon is an awful awful goalie tandem. Neuvy will probably be injured for at least a half of the season and Lyon is most likely not an NHL goalie.

Carlson is alright, but that is an overpayment. Both the term and the cap hit.


You have to sacrifice somewhere, hoping the improved team in front of the goalies and hoping also Neuvirth doesn't get injured 10 times in the same season doesn't happen again, although with his history it is a worry. Hexy has already made it clear that he is waiting to bring up Hart and will not go after an expensive goalie. We are in this boat for another year or two regardless if we like it or not.
14 mai 2018 à 14 h 2
#21
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Quoting: NickC1988
I can see JT getting 12-13 in MTL.


Perhaps, but Montreal is a dumpster fire and JT isn't getting any younger. If he is the competitor he makes himself out to be he will be looking for good money yes, but also a team to win with. He may go back home to a Canadian team but I don't think Montreal will be able to lure him with just money.
14 mai 2018 à 14 h 15
#22
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I also think you are really underestimating Sanheim. He was exceptional this year and I expect him to get a pretty hefty raise after next season.
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14 mai 2018 à 14 h 23
#23
Banni
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Quoting: sk540
Nah man don't follow hockey, just know more than you clearly. Have you ever heard what goes into negotiations for free agency, the flyers will absolutely use the reasons I listed to pay less. Sanheim our 4th best dman?? That's not saying much with our defense since after ghost and provy who else is there, he possibly could be on our team, but not on any other teams. And he was scratched in the playoffs, apparently others with more hockey experience than this whole site agrees with me, if he was in fact one of our best dman he would've played every game since we needed major help.
I didn't know 47 points in one full NHL season warranted a 5.5 million dollar contract, please site examples of this? Ghost got a 4.5 million contract after breaking several rookie records and had a double digit games point streak, and he got a million less than a guy who has one nhl year and scored 47 points?? OK brother, please stop. Provy is our best dman, but right now he's one of the best in the entire league?!?! I can easily name 20 other dman at this point right now who are better. Yes he's only 21 years old, yes for a 21 year old he is pretty amazing, but in no way shape or form is he going to get a 7.5 million dollar contract, more money than some of the best dmen in the league.

You are beyond delusional if you think anything of what you said, minus your Laughton point, is anywhere near rational. Not saying that signing 3 free agents and making 3 trades is rational, but its possible. What you're spewing is nonsense.


I'm saying I would rather pay more now than a lot more in 3- 5 years. In 3 years when Provy wants Doughty/Karlsson money, after his bridge deal that you want to give him, you will be saying "why didn't we lock him up at $7.5 for 8 years? Now we are paying 3-4 mil more than we could have been. Same goes for Konecny. Pay Him $5 now for 8 years instead of $8 in 3 years after he tops 35 goals.
14 mai 2018 à 14 h 44
#24
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Quoting: sk540
Nah man don't follow hockey, just know more than you clearly. Have you ever heard what goes into negotiations for free agency, the flyers will absolutely use the reasons I listed to pay less. Sanheim our 4th best dman?? That's not saying much with our defense since after ghost and provy who else is there, he possibly could be on our team, but not on any other teams. And he was scratched in the playoffs, apparently others with more hockey experience than this whole site agrees with me, if he was in fact one of our best dman he would've played every game since we needed major help.
I didn't know 47 points in one full NHL season warranted a 5.5 million dollar contract, please site examples of this? Ghost got a 4.5 million contract after breaking several rookie records and had a double digit games point streak, and he got a million less than a guy who has one nhl year and scored 47 points?? OK brother, please stop. Provy is our best dman, but right now he's one of the best in the entire league?!?! I can easily name 20 other dman at this point right now who are better. Yes he's only 21 years old, yes for a 21 year old he is pretty amazing, but in no way shape or form is he going to get a 7.5 million dollar contract, more money than some of the best dmen in the league.

You are beyond delusional if you think anything of what you said, minus your Laughton point, is anywhere near rational. Not saying that signing 3 free agents and making 3 trades is rational, but its possible. What you're spewing is nonsense.


Don't take things too personal...these are supposed to be for fun.

Sanheim is actually our 3rd best D-Man $for$. His analytics were actually higher than Ghost/Provy(Smaller sample size obviously) but he was playing against weaker pairings and didn't get stuck with nearly as many D-zone starts that Provy did. He was scratched bc Hak felt Manning had more experience and liked him paired with Gudas better. That decision was a major reason why we fared so poorly against the Pens...as the Manning/Gudas were the worst tandem in the playoffs. We needed more speed and better outlet passes and instead Hak went with more "grit".

You're underselling Konecny. 4.5m is certainly a reasonable number to lock him up long term if he surpasses his numbers again (Tyler Johnson got 5m - 7yrs with similar numbers).

Yes, Provy is one of the best D-men in the league for his age. He plays in every scenario, has the lowest O-zone starts, highest D-zone starts, plays against the leagues top talent, and put up great numbers. He will be considered a Karlsson, Doughty etc in a couple years.
14 mai 2018 à 15 h 5
#25
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Quoting: sk540
How am I underpaying everyone when everyone I have signed is getting significant raises? JT still gets a raise here, but joins a team with Giroux who he has said in the past would love to play with. Also allows him to stay close to the home he has had his whole career and joins a young and upcoming team. How much will be the top offer he gets, 10.5, 11? So in the grand scheme he gives himself a chance to win a cup, just like Parise and Suter did in Minnesota when they both said no to higher offers.


Tavares will get a minimum of 11m and probably even more. Vegas has the cap room and is a contender. And he'll probably get ridiculous offers from Montreal and other non contenders for 12m+. Remember McDavid signed for 12.5m and that wasn't even the original offer...he took less bc he didn't want to cap strap the Oilers
 
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