Hell no! I wouldn't give Nylander alone for Risto, not even that package. Liljegren is going to be better than Risto in few years. And Nylander is middle-6 C we would need. No thanks.

Well you can see how highly the leaf fans value their draft picks from a draft that was considered one of the weakest drafts in years. So Nylander's 128 pts that last 3 years v Ristolainen's 121 pts over that same period much more valuable. This deal is a big NO, not from a leaf's fan but from a casual hockey fan.

Hell no! I wouldn't give Nylander alone for Risto, not even that package. Liljegren is going to be better than Risto in few years. And Nylander is middle-6 C we would need. No thanks.

Hey bud...way to compare points without taking into consideration games played. PPG over the last 3 years: Nylander = .715, Risto = .530

If you take just last year and this year into account (since last year was Nylander's rookie season), it's similar: Nylander = .732, Risto = .548

Risto had a year and a half as a pro before Nylander was called up at the end of the season a couple years ago.

No one is arguing that Risto isn't a great offensive D-man, or that comparing points from a winger vs d-man is a fair side-by-side, but don't bring your clown comparisons here.

I mean, I get that you wouldn't want to do this, but Liljegren has 13 points in the AHL. In his draft year ristolainen had 20 points in 34 AHL games and played 34 NHL games. At age 21 he was a 41 point, top pairing 26 minute per game defenseman. To just assume your mid 1st round pick is going to be better is pretty audacious.

Thank you for your comment. Risto is a defense-man playing for THE lowest scoring teams in the NHL and Nylander is a forward who plays for 2nd highest scoring NHL team. Please avoid insulting me when your comparison is actually much weaker than mine, forwards ARE suppose to score MUCH more than defense-men. Finally, I would imagine if Risto was on a team that had 80 more goals, his pts/gm would be even higher than Nylander.

This is true. Nobody can assume one will have a better career over the other. That mid-pick was projected to go top-3 at one point early last season....but he could just as easily flame out as he could be a future #1 d-man.
FIr

I'm only responding to a hypothetical trade, I don't think the sabres and leafs would ever be significant trade partners, but you don't trade a 23 year old top pairing defenseman who plays top 5 minutes in the league, puts up 40 points a season and is locked up long term at a reasonable salary unless you are getting an elite player(s) back

You're the one that wanted to compare total points...not me. Thanks for taking my comment/rationale and explaining it to me though...that was helpful

Thanks I enjoy conversing because it helps me to consider relative values. But let's compare a recent block buster trade, Larsson for Hall. I would not trade Risto for Larsson and a 20th OA 1st nor would I trade Hall for Nylander and a 20 OA. I have watched all 4 of them play so it is based on observation, not stats nor other peoples comments So there you have my opinion summed in a comparison trades. If you feel differently that is fine, but I think you would agree with my assessment of Hall > Nylander and Risto > Larsson. So by simple math Risto >> Nylander.

Thanks I enjoy conversing because it helps me to consider relative values. But let's compare a recent block buster trade, Larsson for Hall. I would not trade Risto for Larsson and a 20th OA 1st nor would I trade Hall for Nylander and a 20 OA. I have watched all 4 of them play so it is based on observation, not stats nor other peoples comments So there you have my opinion summed in a comparison trades. If you feel differently that is fine, but I think you would agree with my assessment of Hall > Nylander and Risto > Larsson. So by simple math Risto >> Nylander.

I mean, I get that you wouldn't want to do this, but Liljegren has 13 points in the AHL. In his draft year ristolainen had 20 points in 34 AHL games and played 34 NHL games. At age 21 he was a 41 point, top pairing 26 minute per game defenseman. To just assume your mid 1st round pick is going to be better is pretty audacious.

Using these comparatives is stupid.

This trade makes zero sense for the Leafs because the last thing they need is another offensive D-man in Risto and sorry to say it but Buffalo has absolute trash on the back end other than Risto.

I'd only challenge a couple minor things from your comment. Namely the fact that the Hall-Larsson trade was a one-off deal. A bone-headed move by Chiarelli. Everyone (myself included) thought that this was going to be the new trade market for d-men...except no other GM was stupid enough to make a deal like that. So while I agree that Hall > Nylander and Risto > Larsson...the trouble is comparing top end forwards vs top end d-men and I don't think the Hall-Larsson trade is the best template for doing so. So the transitive property you used to determine Risto > Nylander isn't accurate IMO.

Let me add one final comment, if Liljegren is that good, then the leafs got the player out of that draft by a long mile.

That being said...I'm already on record here saying that Nylander for Riso straight up would be interesting and that there's obvious benefits to the leafs to do so. A scenario where the leafs would include their top d prospect + a 2nd rounder in addition to Nylander makes it an absolute 'no' from the leafs side of things.

A lot of it probably has to do with what each fan base sees on the regular. Leaf fans see Nylander's magic, especially with Matthews, and no one wants to break that up. Then we see all the games we have vs. Buffalo...and while Risto tends to rack up an assist or two and get under skins, I don't think most of us look and him and wish we could swap Nylander for him...whether that's fair or not.

Leafs say no, what's really in for the Leafs? Risto is a UFA in four years. Nylander is 1.5 years younger and has at least four years (maybe five) of Leafs control. Liljegren is one of few junior aged players in the AHL, and the Leafs have hopes, reasonable hopes that he is going to a good NHLers starting in 2019. And you want a 2nd rounder too for Sabres. Though I don't know why you would include a second rounder, cause you wrote earlier than even the 18th pick overall (Liljegren) is meaningless.
How many years are we going to talk about the Larson/Hall trade as a basis for trades. C'mon if that is the basis as a "factual" argument, there is no discussion.

If stats are so important (not saying that they are but since "points" for mentioned in the discussion). Risto minus 19. Nylander plus 18.

Leafs say no, what's really in for the Leafs? Risto is a UFA in four years. Nylander is 1.5 years younger and has at least four years (maybe five) of Leafs control. Liljegren is one of few junior aged players in the AHL, and the Leafs have hopes, reasonable hopes that he is going to a good NHLers starting in 2019. And you want a 2nd rounder too for Sabres. Though I don't know why you would include a second rounder, cause you wrote earlier than even the 18th pick overall (Liljegren) is meaningless.
How many years are we going to talk about the Larson/Hall trade as a basis for trades. C'mon if that is the basis as a "factual" argument, there is no discussion.

If stats are so important (not saying that they are but since "points" for mentioned in the discussion). Risto minus 19. Nylander plus 18.

You and I agree on a lot of things...but one area I always disagree with is how you lower someones value based on UFA status when they still have multiple years left. Risto is on a great contract and, IMO, would be one of the positives that would come out of a Nylander-Risto swap

Lilegren was slated to go top 3, he had mono and that put down his draft value.