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Freshfitted69
Freshfitted67
Membre depuis
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Avalanche du Colorado
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Maple Leafs de Toronto
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Forum:
Armchair-GM
18 juin 2021 à 23 h 38
Sujet:
Seth Jones
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Freshfitted69</b></div><div>Lol I wasn't going to ask for your top 10. But i know why you did that. I've had people pull that move on me before.... and then they nitpick your list, find one guy to criticize, and use that to try to tear down your credibility... Don't worry lol that's not my plan.
I'm not a football fan. Never have been. Hockey has always been my #1 sport. (Also, Mack and Jones are really good friends btw, despite the torching)
I don't think Seth Jones is a top 10 D man either
I think he's a bit more than Erik Johnson without the injuries.... but even if that's all he is (and I hope you mean a younger Erik Johnson, when he was #1D-worthy).... IMO that's exactly what the Avs need right now. If the avs can acquire a sizeable, skilled, mobile, strong D man who can clear the front of the net, and make decent breakout passes without losing Newhook, Byram, Girard, or any of their other major core pieces.... I think you do it.
Makar and Girard are great but they can't clear bigger forwards from the front of the net. Girard got punished on the forecheck vs Vegas... Toews is a great defender but mostly he uses a great stick to break up plays... Graves was our most physical defender with presence and strength.... That's not a good thing.... And even worse, he's gone in the expansion draft, anyways.... We could go out and add a bottom pairing defenseman with physicality like Bogosian or something.... but how much of a difference is he gonna make playing 12 minutes a night?
I see Jones and I don't see a top 10 D.... I don't see a Norris candidate....
I see:
Size, Strength, Mobility, Young Veteran, Leader, Physically Solid (No punisher, but also no shrinking violet) can make breakout passes, can join the rush, personal relationships with Mack and Sakic... And his trade value is at an all time low... He checks a lot of boxes...
I'd be willing to make a friendly bet that if Jones gets traded to a decent team, he bounces back significantly.</div></div>
Relationships don’t matter if that were the case guys like Drouin and Parayko would be targets. Yeah he is a big guy but he doesn’t play big, and the thing is somebody is going to bet big on him trade for him give him an $8M contract and regret it. If you want a big mobile dman go for an elite guy and sign Hamilton for free. It will mean culling the roster of guys like Graves, Compher and maybe another forward but it also means not trading guys on ELC’s and draft picks that will be crucial for a team looking to compete long term. I just think Jones is the ultimate tease, always almost there but not and he will be expensive. Or if you don’t want to spend that go for a guy like Oleksiak.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
18 juin 2021 à 17 h 31
Sujet:
Seth Jones
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>oneX</b></div><div>Yeah sure it's gaslighting when it's about other teams but it wasn't gaslighting back then.. you know when Kadri got suspended for a second straight playoffs.
You don't have to like that the issue got brought up but it's an issue if the player isn't available to the team, especially when it matters most.
He has history of this and well we can play if/and/or/but's the team still didn't benefit from the 2C the guy was supposed to be.</div></div>
It is very fair to criticize Kadri for the suspension. Do I think the league was fair or consistent that’s another matter. I have no problem with this position and I’m a Kadri defender, I also think it is fair to question his future on the team, because as you correctly pointed out he made himself unavailable when the Avs needed him most.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
18 juin 2021 à 17 h 26
Sujet:
Seth Jones
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Freshfitted69</b></div><div>Alright cool, we're in the same boat then.... But you're gonna tell me that you DIDNT see Kadri just standing around 50% of the time? You DIDNT see the puck bounce off his stick and down the ice every time on the PP? You watched all the games and you really think 6' 190 rookie Byram would make the team better defensively than 6'4 210 perennial All-Star Seth Jones IN THE PLAYOFFS?
I'm glad you watch the games, but I just wonder if we're watching the same games.... because that's not what I'm seeing...
Underlying stats are great.... but when you play on the President's trophy winning team, with the largest shot margins in the league, sometimes that means you were able to play competently, and the system, the coaching, and your teammates made you look good.
Sometimes the inverse can be true.... Sometimes you can be a great player, but if you're surrounded by a team culture thats falling apart, you can look bad.
Stats aren't the end all and be all
Look at Taylor Hall going from Buffalo to Boston.... If we were to believe the stats while he was in Buffalo, he should have been in the AHL... But in Boston he's a God.
Big strong defensemen capable of clearing the net, skating, and punishing opposing forwards help you win championships. I'll leave it at that.</div></div>
Kadri is an easy target because of his suspensions. He had an up and down season offensively and was definitely gripping the stick to score. But that’s the problem relying entirely on the eye test, and most fans are and Avs fans the worst victims of it because most were hard core football fans and the eye test works in football. Kadri plays good hockey. Plain and simple. Jones you are in love with something that isn’t there. He doesn’t play to his size, never has not even in juniors where MacKinnon torched his ass in the memorial cup. You want to know what/who Jones is, he is Eric Johnson minus the injuries. He isn’t a top 10 dman in the league, and since you are going to ask off the top of my head Makar, Josi, Hedman, Heiskanen, Fox, Chabot, McAvoy, Pietrangelo, Hamilton, Chychrun are all better and you are giving up elite level payment. Hell I wouldn’t trade Girard, Toews or Byram for him straight up. Looks like Tarzan plays a lot like Jane.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
18 juin 2021 à 13 h 50
Sujet:
Seth Jones
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Freshfitted69</b></div><div>Lol ok, well once again, I don't know what team you cheer for, and I don't know how many avs games you actually watched... Hfboards is full of dumb opinions but you do get a general sense of a player's performance rated by hundreds of pairs of eyes who watch every game. If you don't think that's worth anything I think you should consider reevaluating how you judge players....
Are you trying to use a career 51.7CF% on a historically unsuccesful team as a bad thing? I'm confused lol that's the most crazy twisting of a stat i think I've ever seen
yes his point totals might go down, but that should make him cheaper to resign... and im not going out and acquiring him for points during the regualr season.... the avs have lots of that already.... im acquiring him to be a big strong solid mobile workhorse defenseman during the playoffs. And that's worth something.
You're overstating Byram's impact. If anything, his time in the NHL showed that he has potential but he's not ready to be a top 4 defenseman, and although he does bring physicality and is relatively solid, he was often outmuscled (IN THE REGULAR SEASON) I tremble at the thought of relying on Byram for top 4 minutes in the playoffs.
And finally, I would be making this deal with the intention of moving things around to accomodate resigning Jones for the future... I wouldn't make this deal with the intention of a 1 year rental.</div></div>
Let’s see I’m an Avs fan, I can tell you the line up of the 95-96 team, I call tell you who they traded to get Lemieux and Ozolinsh, and I can tell you every player involved in the Roy trade. I can tell I was not only at game 1 of the 2001 Stanley cup finals but also game 2 of Vegas series. I remember the ROR offer sheet, and painfully remember a 48pt season when literally every single metric and luck factor went against them. I’m also neurotic enough that not only do I watch every game, I listen to pod casts by DNVR (my favorite), 31 thoughts, the PDOcast (I like Filipovich), and Hockey Mountain High. The fact you think Jones is a defensive dman shows how skewed your perception of him is. Byram as a 19yr old had borderline elite underlying metrics defensely, but he was “out muscled”. Ridiculous, the kid was drafted 4th overall for reason, he was a 2 time member of team canda at the WJC’s. But if you don’t believe Jones is over rated here is some more for you to read.
https://jfresh.substack.com/p/is-seth-jones-actually-elite
Forum:
Armchair-GM
18 juin 2021 à 12 h 16
Sujet:
Seth Jones
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Freshfitted69</b></div><div>lol alright i hadn't seen that. I'm having a hard time matching this up with how ive seen him play. i dont know what to say. i still believe in the player and i'm betting this means you could buy low. I've seen what this man is capable of. Trade for him now while he's at his lowest value???</div></div>
his problem this year was he was over used and over deployed with poor results. He was the jackets TOI leader. Coaching compounded his issues by playing way too much and he could never play himself out of it.
so the idea of him being a stud shut down 1st pairing guy is sort of broken based on this season....maybe he can recapture his 2018-19 form which came out of nowhere to be honest. Or he might be a guy who lives off a high rep and cashes in big time on UFA bc of it. Its ont likes awful and you cant play him. But dont pay 1st pairing trade price and 1st pairing in a new contract for a guy who probably is your 2nd pairing guy
Forum:
Armchair-GM
18 juin 2021 à 12 h 1
Sujet:
Seth Jones
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Freshfitted69</b></div><div>That's fair. I do use eye-test opinions more than most stats-junkies. Eye tests can be misleading. But so can stats. I mean, Jones was +10 in 2019-20, had 0.54points per game, has positive corsi relative to his teammates and played on a team with Pierre-Luc-Dubois as their biggest star.... I mean I don't know what to tell you.... I watched him play 65minutes in a single night against the Lightning in the playoffs that year, come off the ice, give an interview and it looked like he hadn't broken a sweat. I watched him every second of that Maple Leafs series, and he and Werenski were EVERYWHERE. You couldn't get the puck past them. If anyone thinks Seth Jones is a below average defenseman, I'm sorry, in my opinion, you're sorely mistaken.</div></div>
Just a snap shot of showing his metrics at play this season and you can see the the decline happening based on his 2018-19 season
<img class="for_img" src="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E2o-CUCWEAANUSx?format=jpg&name=small" alt="E2o-CUCWEAANUSx?format=jpg&name=small">
Forum:
Armchair-GM
18 juin 2021 à 11 h 34
Sujet:
Seth Jones
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Freshfitted69</b></div><div>Did you watch the games? Go on HFBoards and ask them what they thought of Kadri's performance this season. He stands still a lot... I know his corsi is high... everyone's corsi was high on the avs this year... I know the stats make him look good, but watch the games... and I dont know what to tell you, he doesn't look good. He doesn't move his feet. He barely skates unless the puck is on his stick. It's atrocious and it got worse throughout the season. You could see his teammates getting frustrated with him... And then he goes and gets himself suspended for the 3rd time in the playoffs. If you think he's good, please take him off our hands lol I dont know what team you cheer for but I'll gladly trade him to you.
As far as the 3 1st round picks... yeah I understand how you could see that as an overpayment... Barron is the prospect that stands out in that group. Kaut looks serviceable... and the 1st would presumably be in the 25-31 range, so we're not talking SUPER DUPER high value.... The thing is.. there's gonna be some competition for Jones. Other teams are interested. To pry him away from you're gonna have to make the best offer. If you still think it's an overpayment, fine, please subtract a prospect or a pick, I'll still gladly make the deal..... But if I lowballed I'd have a hundred posters coming in here saying "PFFFFTTTTT YOU THINK THAT'S GONNA GET SETH JONES"
So what am I supposed to do? Any way you slice it people come on here and cut you to ribbons.
The sens and duchene trade is not a good analogy. You could have picked the sharks and Karlsson. that would have been better, but still I just disagree.</div></div>
The minute I go to HFBoards for an opinion will be the first time. I actually watch and understand (decently not perfectly) what metrics say about players as well as the proverbial eye test which you are relying on heavily. Tell me what is so good about a dman (supposedly a shutdown) with a career 51.7 CF, -18 career +/-, hasn’t been +1 xGD since the 17-18 season, and has a negative shot differential the last 2 years. On top of that you KNOW his point total will go down because he won’t play on PP1. Yet knowing all that, you want to add a 1yr guy who will want $7M+ (not that he is worth it) to extend which the Avs WON’T be able to or willing to pay. AND the Avs have Byram whom before the injury as 19 yr old was cementing his place in the top 4. You’re entitled to your opinion, but bro I would reevaluate how you are looking at players, because it is 100% a massive over pay.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
18 juin 2021 à 10 h 55
Sujet:
Seth Jones
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Freshfitted69</b></div><div>I DID! I watched him log 30 minutes a night and shutdown Marner and Matthews! HE'S GOOD! A slight dip in points doesnt make this stud defender into some sort of declining worthless puddle of mud. The kid is only 26 years old and he's a workhorse that defends well, skates well, can chip in points, hit opponents and clear the net... I don't know what you were watching last year but the kid's a bonified stud nhl defenseman,</div></div>
points are not his issue, he was bad defensively in expected goals against and shot shares. Columbus was getting caved in when he was on the ice, he wasnt shutting down anyone last year.
but I dont think you understand that so I will just leave this conversation bc there is no point of debating eye tests opinion
Forum:
Armchair-GM
18 juin 2021 à 9 h 58
Sujet:
Seth Jones
That's a lot to give up for a rental, who may not even help the Avs. During the past few years, Dmen Jones, Werenski and Savard on Columbus have collectively been really overrated by CF followers.
Forum:
Armchair-GM
13 mai 2021 à 15 h 24
Sujet:
Crazy Eichel Trade
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>Freshfitted69</b></div><div>Yeah, you're right. But there are some things you haven't taken into account. Some of those deals were signed pre-covid, when it was assumed that the cap would still be going up. Just because mediocre or even star players got lucrative deals in previous years, it doesn't necessarily mean they will be getting the same type of money this time around. The market has changed.
Also, I'd say the hype train was bigger on Binnington and Markstrom than Grubauer, who has been injury prone.
If Frankie is going to be healthy, you don't have to sign Johansson to that one-way nhl deal.
And sometimes, if you can't fit a guy under the cap, like say Jost for example, you have to trade him away. Think like the Kapanen deal... In reality, you're right.... this is too much to sacrifice just to get another star centre on the team, but I wouldn't say it CANT be done. After all, only a Sith deals in absolutes :)</div></div>
What are you talking about. There is no hype train, that is just a made up thing by you to justify underpaying what the market has set. Binnington and Markstrom signed their contracts Post Covid in the flat cap era, Gallagher signed his contract post covid and its 6.5m aav....Landy isnt 500k more than Gallagher, there is a clear difference bw the players....Landy has almost been a point per game player the last 3 season .Gallagher not even close to that sort of production or as good defensively as Landy
I think you might have not taking into account the post covid contracts and low balled the avs values. I would love to see them sign those but it aint happening, have to be realistic here. Stars still get paid
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