again people have stated this, when he was signed and afterwards. The burden is not on me to find the posts. They are there. if this site allowed search it would be easy to find, but sadly it does not.

B. saying "he was demoted" when his ice time never went down means nothing, his role changed, not his ice time.
I'm going to say this again. Show me your statistical proof he's a bad defenseman. You keep thinking the burden is on me to prove he's good. I've laid out the numbers and show what happened on the ice.

Where is your proof he's a bad defense man other than the already disproven theory of "he was demoted" which isn't true. Every night he still got more ice time than POJ, Shea, Ludvvig and Chad R or what ever other 3rd pairing guys there were. You can't point to the game, where he did not get injured, where that's not true. So his ice time clearly wasn't demoted. His role just shifted to make up for the bad 3rd pairing which was bleeding a ton of goals. So by all means, point the games out where his ice time was 5th or 6th for defenseman. aka 3rd pairing aka demotion. If you can't it's a dead argument.

So where is your stats that prove that a guy who gets mainly defensive starts in a shut down role as your own number have show, is a "bad" defenseman at the 2LD level.
If you are going to call it, you must prove it. The burden isn't the other way around. I have shown how he isn't and how his numbers are what should be expected. Now the burden is on you.
If you can't prove it. The convo is over.

No they didn't. And the burden of proof is actually very much on you. That's how proving a point works man.

His ice time did go down. A lot. It takes like 5 seconds to look at his game log. I've provided it - here and in our other conversation(I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you wrote this comment first) - analytics, comparisons, player cards, etc. And yet you've provided nothing to show he is having a good season. Well yes - the burden of proof would be on you to prove he's good. You really don't understand how burden of proof is applied or what it means huh? You haven't though - you gave one number which I provided context for.

Dude read my comments please - both here and our other conversation(I'll give you the benefit of the doubt you wrote this comment first). It is 100% true. It's just a fact.

He doesn't get mainly defensive starts. He's at 12.7%. He's not playing a shut down role, and certainly isn't doing a good job of it if he is. I've given my proof, both here and in our other conversation .You have provided zero proof that he is having a good season. If you are going to call it, you must prove it. You somehow think everybody else needs to prove their point but you don't? Weird. Yes - the burden is one you. No - you haven't shown how he isn't. If you can't prove it - the convo is over. Everybody but you agrees Graves is having a bad season. There's a reason for that - take a hint

A. he is used defensively. you keep wanting to say 12.7% of his starts are defensive. Look at those numbers you posted.
Letang was 11, EK was 10... what you think Chad R. and now Ivvany is getting 78% of the d starts? Your numbers don't add up.
you want to use neutral zone starts to diminish the actual starts. I'm not playing that game. Neutral zone starts don't tell you the direction the puck is going.
So it's worthless.
But zone starts do.

I have looked at game logs, there is a small stretch of games Graves time is diminished. But even in that time he's still getting more time. He got 14 minutes in some games. but POJ and the 3RD were getting 9-10 minutes. so he was still carrying the 4th spot. There was maybe 3-4 games where that wasn't the case. But it doesn't matter, His TIO is still 18:23 over the 70 games. where POJ is 14:58 boosted by the fact graves has been out 11 games now.

So again, you aren't leading with any numbers here.
You seem to think every defenseman is going to have great numbers. 55% corsi... that isn't 2LD numbers. roughly 50% is 2LD corsi numbers. You see to think guys who are taking defensive roles are suppose to have offensive numbers. They aren't.
Lead with numbers, not opinion.
I'm showing you this. I'm giving other 2LD comparable. I'm showing the stats as they measure.
Do the same.

"He's used defensively" isn't an argument for him having a good season - especially not when he hasn't been good defensively and only stats in the dzone marginally more. I keep wanting to say that because that's the % of his starts that are in the dzone. Yes - look at them. Ruhwedel is around 12%. St Ivany is around 7%. How do they not add up? That makes no sense. I'm the one giving you the actual zone starts. Of course you aren't - because you don't want to play any game that would prove you wrong. My number is in no way worthless. You said dzone starts. Thats literally what i provided. You're just trying to move the goalposts now because you know you're wrong.

So you agree his TOI was diminished. Okay cool - end of that topic. I'm right.

Yes - I am. It's you that isn't. No - I don't. Just another strawman from you. Stop with this defensive role nonsense dude - you have no point there. It doesn't mean he's had a good season. He also hasn't been good defensively.

Dude - take you own advice. Lead with numbers, not opinion. You've given nothing that says he's had a good season. Saying "he's been deployed defensively" is not a good argument for him having a good season

I literally gave you the Pettersson/Graves/POJ comparison. I also gave you evidence that he is clearly lacking the rest of the top4 on the Pens. I gave you his horrendous WAR on his player card

again not a single stat.
I gave you the Dzone start stat, in link.
They aren't wrong. That's it.
You are trying to talk about in game flow starts. Think about that for 1 minute would you.
You aren't going to change on your side of the ice for multiple reasons that should be obvious to anyone who's ever played hockey or watched. Especially when your bench is the far one on switches.
Players would rather stay in for shifts over 1:30 before try to switch pinned in their own end.

This is why this 12% stat you keep trying to justify is junk. It's a non-validated stat as they would say in analytics.
And the reason the one hockey-ref is giving you is way more telling.
Nor do neutral zone starts, tell you which direction the puck is heading. So it tells you nothing about use.
But the stat that hockey-ref gives you does.
As far as i'm concerned this should be obvious to anyone looking at it. So I don't know why you are obsessed with a non validated stat. When you are given a better one.

again, show me the justification for a "bad" year in the numbers. There are 31 other 2LD in the league, compare the numbers, lets see how it's a bad year.
I just gave you 1/4 the league. The numbers are on part with most, some a little better some a little worse but on par. Only guys getting paid way more have any real noticeable advantage. But you get what you pay for right?