A nod to @NHLfan10506 for this one as well. Their thinking being the Devils need a young LHD if they were to trade 'Motor Mike'. I'm not sure how happy Byram would be vying for time with Siegenthaler and Hughes in the long term when the Devils are all fit and healthy but that would of course be their problem. Equally interesting would be cap issues for them long term, though with Siegenthaler, Hamilton, Nosek and Foote moved to LTIR they have about 14 mil in cap to play with this season so it's manageable until the off season at least.
Summary of the points @NHLfan10506 made re: McLeod.
Current face off % leader in the NHL.
As it stands without a drop off will be the single season face off % leader since records began.
3rd in 2023-24 GAR/60 leaders among centers (1.181, only McDavid and MacKinnon above him....more pesky Gaels!)
Currently 7th in xGF% (57.6)
Does not have exceptionally talented linemates most of the time (plays very little with Hischier & Hughes for example).
4th top scoring C under $2mil (also the youngest of the 4 and one of the 4 has just signed a 4 mil per extension and of the 4 McLeod has the second least ATOI)
RFA, 25 years old and eminently signable at a reasonable raise from his current $1.4m per.
In addition I would add that he's 6'2 190 but plays bigger, has chemistry with Wood from their time together in New Jersey. Extremely fast which suits the Avs game (21-22 & 22-23 Speed bursts above 20mph per 60 amongst forwards McLeod ranks 15th) and good in transition which again suits the Avs. Responsible defensively and a good penalty killer.
The questions are:
1. His value?
2. Can he step up to 2C?
3. If he can't step up to 2C is he worth acquiring as a 3C and letting Colton take a shot at 2C? (or in my pipe dream acquiring his brother as well and letting him have a shot at 2C as he's buried in EDM behind McD, Drai and Nuge)
Two and three I personally think the answers are maybe and yes. The first is the trickier part. Personally I would value McLeod at a first, maybe a first plus a small piece if taken in a vacuum. New Jersey would be, and should be, loathe to give up 'Motor Mike' cheaply. He's arguably one of those players who have more internal value to the team than trade value but I'd also argue that the Devils are possibly partially responsible for him not having become more already through their usage of him.
So the Devils give up a decent piece in McLeod but that's not enough for Byram on its own who I'd value at at least two firsts in a straight trade for picks.
Whilst as already stated, New Jersey can absorb a massive hit on the cap with LTIR, there's always going to be something recouped for doing so. Adding $6.45 mil in cap is a LOT in the salary cap era, and there is still also the issue of making it balance next year as it then, in essence, becomes the full $7.85 mil. That hit on the cap alone is probably worth a 1st round pick. Add in the '25 2nd and we now have the equivalent of two firsts and a second for Byram, plus a 3rd for RyJo and the massive amount of cap space generated (albeit some of that would be taken up in re-signing McLeod).
The Avs lose a good young D but their D core is good enough to absorb the blow even if they would probably need to strengthen the depth of the corps as whole. They gain a good young C who might be good enough to be 2C or at least would be a solid 3C allowing Colton to take a shot at 2C. Then there are the picks in the next two drafts. The Avs gain long term cap space but also short term space and assets they can make more moves with at the TDL should they wish to do so (maybe even prising Ryan out of Edmonton to join his brother and make it Highland Central in Colorado lol).
For New Jersey they give up two picks and McLeod and take on cap but get the young D they want plus add a veteran C who still has value (currently on course for a 20 goal season) but simply doesn't have the speed needed on his current team. RyJo will also absorb some of the loss of McLeod in areas such as face offs.
Nobody loses a first round pick at the draft, the premium asset, and everybody wins.
I'm expecting hate from both sides on this one. Too much or too little from whichever side?
I like McLeod and had pitched a deal for him last year. Not sure he can handle 2C minutes and this deal feels like it needs to be paired with getting at least a rental 2C for it to make sense this season.
Tempting deal. Are you valuing RyJo as a cap dump in this?
I’d say McLeod+1st=byram
2nd to dump RyJo.
So McLeod+2nd for Byram+Ryjo
Not a big difference in value but just my take.
Or maybe you could send some later round picks back (4th/5ths/6ths) just so we can keep a few dartboard throws for the draft?
No, in conversations on the other thread we were (I think) in agreement that in this instance RyJo wasn't a pure cap dump as he would replace some of what was would be lost in McLeod. Basically the dumping of cap and McLeod are equivalent of two firsts in value vs the valuation of Byram at 2 firsts +, the plus therefore being the 2nd. The cap dump is therefore in the value of the first rounder and the third is for RyJo's abilities. Not sure if that's made it clearer or not?
McLeod (valued at 1x 1st) + Dumping of cap (valued at 1x 1st) (+ 1x 2nd) = Byram (valued at 2x 1sts and a 2nd, bearing in mind Hronek fetched a first and second, Newhook a first and second)
RyJo is therefore no longer a cap dump so has value in replacing McLeod = 3rd.
I like McLeod and had pitched a deal for him last year. Not sure he can handle 2C minutes and this deal feels like it needs to be paired with getting at least a rental 2C for it to make sense this season.
Yeah, he and his brother have been on my radar for some time as perfect 'Av types'. It is still something of a gamble but would potentially make a Lindholm type rental more palatable as you rightly say.
Colorado told Philly to add to Gauthier for Byram so I don't see how they would take this deal
Says who? The Avs front office are notoriously tight lipped. In this the Devils ARE adding to McLeod with two picks and taking on a tonne of cap. Were the Flyers taking on RyJo's cap hit as well? We know this how? Do we know how much the Avs wanted added to Gauthier for Byram? Also Gauthier wouldn't be helping the Avs now whereas both Byram and McLeod do. Apples and watermelons mate let alone apples and oranges.
No, in conversations on the other thread we were (I think) in agreement that in this instance RyJo wasn't a pure cap dump as he would replace some of what was would be lost in McLeod. Basically the dumping of cap and McLeod are equivalent of two firsts in value vs the valuation of Byram at 2 firsts +, the plus therefore being the 2nd. The cap dump is therefore in the value of the first rounder and the third is for RyJo's abilities. Not sure if that's made it clearer or not?
McLeod (valued at 1x 1st) + Dumping of cap (valued at 1x 1st) (+ 1x 2nd) = Byram (valued at 2x 1sts and a 2nd, bearing in mind Hronek fetched a first and second, Newhook a first and second)
RyJo is therefore no longer a cap dump so has value in replacing McLeod = 3rd.
Personally in a deal like this I’d rather leave RyJo out if I have to pay for him, but the value is close enough that 2 late round picks back and I’d do it (4th this year 6th next year maybe), and we throw in a lower tier prospect?
Says who? The Avs front office are notoriously tight lipped. In this the Devils ARE adding to McLeod with two picks and taking on a tonne of cap. Were the Flyers taking on RyJo's cap hit as well? We know this how? Do we know how much the Avs wanted added to Gauthier for Byram? Also Gauthier wouldn't be helping the Avs now whereas both Byram and McLeod do. Apples and watermelons mate let alone apples and oranges.
Friedman just reported it this morning. They were in talks for the young players and Colorado apparently insisted that Philly add, Philly obviously went in a different direction.
Don't know about any of the other stipulations you listed but if they think Philly adds for Byram then there's no way that same management group thinks a 3C, picks that have a 20% and a 15% chance of playing in the NHL are enough to get Byram. Even with taking in Ryjo
Personally in a deal like this I’d rather leave RyJo out if I have to pay for him, but the value is close enough that 2 late round picks back and I’d do it (4th this year 6th next year maybe), and we throw in a lower tier prospect?
That's the sort of chicken feed that rounds out a deal, there's always those bits with a 4th, a 6th, a Foudy or a Halonen type in there, contract balancing and so on. So personally sure that's not a deal breaker in itself, I'm sure those bits could be worked out.
That's the sort of chicken feed that rounds out a deal, there's always those bits with a 4th, a 6th, a Foudy or a Halonen type in there, contract balancing and so on. So personally sure that's not a deal breaker in itself, I'm sure those bits could be worked out.
That’s what I was thinking, solid base for a deal and build around the edges. Nothing major I’d need as NJD. Just later picks in case we have some guys in the draft we like late to keep the cupboard stocked with dart throws
How the Avs should respons to this idea of Mcloed as a 2c for the cost of Byram...
I expected to get some hate from my fellow Avs fans on this one, though one at least agrees with me that it's not the worst idea, so I'll take that lol. I'll still take this deal over a 1st for Monahan and I'll die on that hill.....but only if my head is severed!
I expected to get some hate from my fellow Avs fans on this one, though one at least agrees with me that it's not the worst idea, so I'll take that lol. I'll still take this deal over a 1st for Monahan and I'll die on that hill.....but only if my head is severed!
Lol at least Mcloed looks like a fit. If he had term, I would be more inclined to consider your offer. Now I do declare, this is too much of a gamble for my pocket book.
Lol at least Mcloed looks like a fit. If he had term, I would be more inclined to consider your offer. Now I do declare, this is too much of a gamble for my pocket book.
Yeah, I mean he is at least RFA and not likely to be too costly to re-sign or at least well within the Avs means unlike the Lindholm's etc. It IS a gamble I'll give you that. But at 25 lock him down for 8 years at 5 mil. If he becomes your 2C over the course of those 8 he's an absolute steal. If he's your 3C at his current level, the middle to latter part of the deal are a steal and only the first couple of years hurt.
Lol at least Mcloed looks like a fit. If he had term, I would be more inclined to consider your offer. Now I do declare, this is too much of a gamble for my pocket book.
McLeod has RFA control. Should be able to get him decently cheap, and he’s been a lot better this year than any of the UFA options out there (that includes Lindholm imo)
Bro you don't do these often (unlike me), but when u do, they're masterpieces.
That said, I agree that McLeod isn't really the guy I'm moving Byram for rn, and I'm personally not the biggest McLeod fan. BUT in the long term, that deal has the potential to be a huge steal! The only reason I would be very cautious doing this is "he ain't bona fide" lol . And I don't necessarily disagree, but knowing he has the potential and arC can certainly be a 2C at some point in his career, do we take this? The answer is probably. And even if he fails as a 2C, he'll make a great 3C
McLeod has RFA control. Should be able to get him decently cheap, and he’s been a lot better this year than any of the UFA options out there (that includes Lindholm imo)
I am worried about the effect the Avs will have inflating his stats and then with the arb risk being stuck with a high aav and Mcloed walking as a ufa. I appreciate all the info coming in about Mcloed but this isnt a move I'd make Byram available for. I don't know what pieces could be added to sway that opinion.
Edit: if he can sign a 3x3 kind of deal, I would think harder about it but would still be asking for a 1st on top
I am worried about the effect the Avs will have inflating his stats and then with the arb risk being stuck with a high aav and Mcloed walking as a ufa. I appreciate all the info coming in about Mcloed but this isnt a move I'd make Byram available for. I don't know what pieces could be added to sway that opinion.
Absolutely fair.
If you’re worried about inflated stats raising his price maybe we could try and send him along with an extension?
If you’re worried about inflated stats raising his price maybe we could try and send him along with an extension?
this has been my most enjoyable thread. thank you to all involved. What can you tell me about Mercer. Does he play center enough or likely a career wing?
this has been my most enjoyable thread. thank you to all involved. What can you tell me about Mercer. Does he play center enough or likely a career wing?
I think he can absolutely become a top 6 C. Might have some growing pains at first just because he’s been limited in the opportunities to play C with Nico, McLeod, Jack so far, but he 100% has the skillset
Worst case scenario he can be a fantastic complementary winger anywhere in your top 6.
I think his contract will be 5.5-6 mill x8
Some in the devils fanbase think he may get up to 7 mill AAV (I think he’d have to play at a very high level to earn that)
I don’t think there’s superstar upside with him, but the floor is a quality top 6 guy.
Kills penalties, has improved greatly in the faceoff dot this year.
TJTwolf a aimé ceci.
Malinski,
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