VGK is looking to give more young guys time to shine, and wouldn't want to pick up someone like Perron now, as much as he is still loved in Vegas.

I think depending how it goes they try and trade a lot of those guys. What they get depends on their seasons

Totally forgot he played in Vegas for a year lol ya it wouldn’t happen

Copp is a good hockey player. This gets overlooked. Same with Compher. People get so worked up about the cap and contracts that they forget it’s about icing the best team you can (obviously differs in competing vs rebuilding phases). To think that in 1 or 2 years this guy Copp will be too old to play hockey because he just turned 30, is absurd. 3 goals in 4 games so far, plays 200 ft game.

Who said he’s too old to play hockey? Fact is he’s going to end up being a bottom 6 guy who’ll be massively overpaid ,same with compher. Who cares he has 3 goals in 4 games to start the season. Fans gonna think he’s going to pop 30 now? Debrincat 70? Players go through stretches those guys can easily go 7 games without a goal

Where are we going to fit all these prospects we been drafting? Think the likes of copp will supplant those guys? Unless they end up tanking (which means trouble for us) he’s going to be a bottom 6 guy and possible 4th line down the road

I like Sprong. I think he’s a sneaky good player. But I’m not a fan of giving up a second for him especially with an already crowded forward group. I’d rather bring up Bourque or Stankoven and keep the second. I’m sure there would be other teams with interest tho. If he has a good season a second might be realistic

The Copp and Compher contracts aren’t ideal but good teams have guys like that in the lineup to help bring the kids along

The old part was my assumption… but almost more insane then is you think with no regression the Copp signing is bad? Do you think we have 9 young guys coming up that can seriously outplay Copp? Or even 3. Have you watched him play? After this one, Copp has 3 more seasons in Detroit. Next year you would hope Mazur and Danielson make the team. In the following year, hopefully Soderblom and Kasper have gotten there. Danielson likely paired with Copp for support. 3 of those 4 will be wingers which hardly affects Copp. He will be an important piece of that middle 6 as we look to compete and give support transitioning the young guys into the league. We don’t have a plethora of good forwards racing past him

It is bad. He’s going to be a bottom 6 guy and likely 4th liner last few seasons of his contract making like 5.5 per . That’s not a good thing . We’re going to need roster spots in the top 9 with all the prospects coming real soon and the likes of larkin debrincat raymond Rasmussen compher already take up 5 spots leaving 4 for mazur kasper danielson soderblom Berggren and other guys like Lombardi Hanas etc... if they pan out and push for spots and are all obviously significantly younger than copp

Now unless all those guys are busts and yes a few might be moved to make room cause again, not enough spots , where does copp fit? It’s 4th line 100% on his last few yrs

You asked who makes the roster next season? Danielson has to make it considering he almost made the team. I do think kasper makes the team unless Yzerman keeps delaying the rebuild and signs other guys to one year deals for no reason. Kasper played in the shl 2 seasons and now ahl , he won’t be down long. Soderblom is going to be 23 when next season starts , he’ll be up or dealt/waived. Berggren will be full time by then ...

Mazur will be 22 when season starts so he should have a real shot unless he regresses due to injury. We need to move guys to make spots ... that’s why I hated the Fabbri signing when it happened + his injury history and that looks even worse now. Another destined 4th liner ... find it laughable people already want to sign sprong, sure if your willing to move on already from a Berggren/Soderblom type prospect

And None of these prospects should be 4th line guys otherwise your setting them up to fail

Debrincat larkin raymond
Rasmussen compher Berggren
Soderblom danielson kasper
Mazur copp kostin
Fabbri

That’s what I’d be doing as of next year already which I realize won’t happen and they’ll shove a kasper or Soderblom on the 4th line which would be a mistake ... even mazur on a 4th doesn’t look good but again we need spots so even if we trade a Berggren/Soderblom to move up mazur copp stays down imo

Will probably look like this though and I don’t like seeing 2 of our high end prospects on a 4th line not playing

Debrincat larkin raymond
Rasmussen compher copp
Soderblom danielson Berggren
Mazur kasper kostin
fabbri

Sorry never liked the terms and deals we gave to Fabbri copp compher when it happened and still don’t .

You’re nuts if you think 6 rookies/guys with that little nhl experience are making the wings forward group. Copp will still be better than some and in the middle six.

Been pushing for them to put in a rookie or 2 a season so it would be an easier transition .Your nuts if you think we can keep down in the ahl for 4 yrs

Danielson almost made the lineup , kasper played 2 hrs with men in the shl league and doing a season in the ahl, top 10 pick . They’ll both make it. Soderblom will be 23 ... how long you want these guys to wait?

Copp is a bottom 6 40-45 pt guy. He scores a few goals and now you think he’s a top guy lmao

“Now you think he’s a top guy lmao” … where? Where where where have I said this. He’s a middle six forward, as I said, AND as 40-45 points would suggest.

If that’s bottom 6 as you said now or 4th line as you were pounding before, that’s a fckin great ‘problem’ for the wings to have. Means they have a hell of a team and with all the elc’s that would be on the team, not sure why you’d have your panties in a knot about his cap hit. We would have no issues with the cap in that case and he would be a heck of a bottom 6er.

Where I can agree with you: yes we would all like some rookies in the show. Yes Danielson looked very good and if you look at my profile, I wanted Detroit to draft him, I thought he had a chance at cracking opening night.

Disagree: they can keep Kasper in the A for another year. They won’t be able to graduate 5/6 guys at the same time.

Mazur, Danielson and Berggren I all expect up. Kasper and Soderblom I think have a lot to prove. We will see.

Either way, can’t believe you trying to call Copp a 4th liner

The way you go on about him it would suggest you think he’s a top 6 piece for the duration of his contract

Having a 5.5 player on the 3rd line or especially 4th line is never a great problem to have .Yes we’re lucky to have cheap contracts coming I just don’t know why we’d be giving these bottom line guys a bunch of money and term with those prospects coming. (Fabbri ,compher can be added to the list) anyways it is what it is at this point. We gotta buy someone out eventually or eat 50% to move a body it’ll have to be done

We can’t keep everyone down in the ahl forever. I wanted to put in a rookie or 2 every year to gradually insert them in and get them nhl experience. Mazur and Soderblom ,mazur will be 22-23 by October 2024 . Should we keep them all down? They’re getting at the age where they have to play

Kasper played 2 shl seasons and is getting an ahl season under his belt , top 10 pick . He’s absolutely playing on the team next season . Like I said I wanted to gradually insert guys but Yzerman said he’ll make moves to insert the players if they play themselves in which I believe will be the case. Add edvinsson full time 2024 and it seems that season will consist of a lot of redwings rookies . More to my liking but it must be done . We need the rebuild to step into high gear . As of now we only have seider and raymond from our recent prospect pool so I’d say we’re far behind the sabres and sens atm

Copp is a 3rd liner but he’ll be a 4th liner before his contract ends unless our prospects bust which would be a horrible thing cause we’ll go nowhere

I’m gonna try tackling this bit by bit. I do not go on about Copp, don’t make this more than it is. My original point was saying that Copp is a good hockey player to defend him against your description saying that his contract is going to look really bad soon. He is a good hockey player. He is a middle six player in the prime of his career, good role model, leader, vet, has experience on good playoff teams, good for supporting our youth, can play in all situations, can play centre or wing, plays a 200 ft game. PRIME OF HIS CAREER. He is earning what middle six centres make. Again, prime of his career and as you said, his age wasn’t a worry and you see him as a 40-45 point guy. Contract comparable: 31 year old Charlie couple making 5.25 mil at age 31 on a very good Boston bruins team. Do you not think Copp can be exactly this?



Skipping over your middle but bc my simple response is 1) they’re not bottom line guys 2) I agree it would be ideal to have a rookie or 2 each year. Do you watch the wings? Did you follow preseason or prospects tourney at all? Kasper isn’t even close to being ready, and especially not as a centre. He wasn’t making this team and has no business being in the league yet. Copp isn’t blocking him nor would he be leapfrogging Copp rn. It’s best he can develop in the AHL. Like you, I wish he was ready, but he’s not. Properly developing players is a recipe for success. Will he be ready next year? Unknown - great problem to have if he is ready.

Would love for Mazur to be healthy and make the team. Would love for more rookies to make the team and push. Unfortunately some of them are a bit away. Copp and Compher are the PERFECT middle six support players for these guys when they’re ready. Again, just watch the team, these are good players

Cat-Larkin-Raymond
Copp-Danielson-Ras
Kasper-Compher-Mazur
Kostin-Veleno-Soderblom
Fabbri on IR. I don’t include Fabbri in any discussions bc he’s a good player but unfortunately rarely available. Now, as we both know, that’s best case scenario in the 25-26 season when Copp is in his second last season. Again, that’s if the prospects actually pan out. It obviously won’t look just like that. But with our current pool and players under contract. Not bottom line that’s forsure

Well said

Sorry not the best with copy pasting seperate quotes and stuff ... first part coops a bottom 6 guy and sorry a 40-45 pt guy imo shouldn’t be making like 5,5 mill he’s making. Not saying he sucks or he’s not a good role model for the kids never the less overpaid and will end up on the 3rd line by the end of his contract and possibly 4th or traded ... unless some of or prospects don’t pan out which would be really bad for us. Coyle is another overpaid Center who’s being given top 6 role now cause they have no choice. If they could get rid of coyle today they would

2nd part

Only reason Kasper and others aren’t on the team is cause Yzerman went bezerk and added a bunch of guys in the off season . He said it didn’t matter and if kids found they’re way in he’d make room and we all called bs when it happened and no one ended up making the team. It’s all fun to say he’d make room but it’s not easy to just move contracts

Edvinsson should have made the team game 1, Berggren as well although he’s there now. Kasper is a good 2 way guy he can play and not be a detriment, obviously we want him to put up numbers as well . Kasper is a top 10 pick who played already with men in the shl unlike North American kids and now he’s playing in the ahl and I’m confident he’ll make the roster next season with danielson.

Compher and copp can be good role players but they’re bottom 6 guys who are making more money and term than they should be making. Compher got his first 50 pt season and on one of the top teams in the nhl , I don’t know how he got that deal. Like I said previously those 2 guys will end up as bottom 6 guys way before they’re deal ends,unless our prospects fail which again would be horrible to this team

As fun as the seasons been (handful games) this lineup isn’t going anywhere and we need some prospects to show up and take us to the next level. I don’t care if it’s someone unexpected like a Hanas who unexpectedly pops up 30-35 goals or soderblom’s awakening or our top 10 pick guys but we need the kids to take us to a cup contention level.

As for your lines I can’t see Soderblom on the 4th and playing that role and I’m sure veleno will want to go elsewhere if his future here is on a 4th I could be wrong. No Berggren in your lineup , sadly I think he’ll be gone as well but I think we should keep him, he’s a really good passer and should be played with finishers.

Sadly like you said not everyone will pan out. Something’s telling me hanas will make it and Lombardi wasn’t on your list and I know a lot of fans are hoping with the covid era and no ohl seasons he turns out to be a steal pick and huge impact player for the wings. God knows we need it

Alright, I’ll leave it at this. I understand your points, we just disagree haha. Mentioning just Edvinsson and Kasper though - Kasper was not ready. Like not close. So no need to mention making room at forward. Heck he might be there right now with Fabbri injury if he was ready. Edvinsson on the other hand, could well be playing. Think his injury had a lot to do with how this has panned out for him. Hopefully he’s up halfway through.

Maybe your right with kasper but considering he played 2 years with men in the shl and was a good player I’d say he can hang right now in the nhl but I don’t want him to be a bottom role player anyways . Outside of the obvious Berggren who should be in the nhl anyways if we’re calling anyone up for a couple games I’d be interested in seeing hanas. Probably too soon but he will be 22 in January and he’s been a lot better than I expected when I see him. Would give him a glimpse of the nhl and maybe he’ll see he needs to work on somethings at the gym etc...

And obviously Soderblom even though he hasn’t been lighting it up but I think with his size and shot he can be about a 20 goal guy. If we start to slide down the standings and miss the playoffs which I see as being inevitable I’d like to see him here to stay if we move on from perron,sprong etc..

Edvinsson is a stud , never got all the moves Yzerman made although ghost has looked great (never had a problem with him anyways since it was a one year deal)... I don’t know who he’d have to move out to make room for edvinsson right now. Probably maata since chiarot is unmovable and petry would sit out most games