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Tough to beat

Créé par: Propeller09
Équipe: 2022-23 Bruins de Boston
Date de création initiale: 1 févr. 2023
Publié: 1 févr. 2023
Mode - plafond salarial: Basique
Transactions
1.
BOS
  1. Toews, Jonathan (5 250 000 $ retained)
CHI
  1. Smith, Craig
  2. Zboril, Jakub
  3. Choix de 3e ronde en 2023 (BOS)
2.
3.
BOS
  1. Beaulieu, Nathan (425 000 $ retained)
  2. Choix de 4e ronde en 2023 (ANA)
Repêchage1e ronde2e ronde3e ronde4e ronde5e ronde6e ronde7e ronde
2023
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2024
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2025
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TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS Info-bulleBONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2282 500 000 $82 441 667 $0 $4 650 000 $58 333 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
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6 125 000 $6 125 000 $
AG
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UFA - 3
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2 500 000 $2 500 000 $ (Bonis de performance2 500 000 $$2M)
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NMC
UFA - 1
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6 666 667 $6 666 667 $
AD
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 1
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3 500 000 $3 500 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 1
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1 000 000 $1 000 000 $ (Bonis de performance2 000 000 $$2M)
C
NTC
UFA - 1
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4 000 000 $4 000 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 2
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6 000 000 $6 000 000 $
AG
M-NTC, NMC
UFA - 3
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5 250 000 $5 250 000 $
C
NMC
UFA - 1
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4 950 000 $4 950 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 4
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1 750 000 $1 750 000 $
AG, C
UFA - 1
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5 250 000 $5 250 000 $
C, AD
M-NTC, NMC
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3 800 000 $3 800 000 $
AG, C, AD
M-NTC
UFA - 1
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762 500 $762 500 $
AD, AG
UFA - 2
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
Logo de Bruins de Boston
6 500 000 $6 500 000 $
DG
NTC, NMC
UFA - 8
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9 500 000 $9 500 000 $
DD
UFA - 8
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5 000 000 $5 000 000 $
G
NMC
UFA - 3
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3 687 500 $3 687 500 $
DG
UFA - 2
Logo de Canucks de Vancouver
850 000 $850 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
Logo de Bruins de Boston
925 000 $925 000 $ (Bonis de performance150 000 $$150K)
G
RFA - 1
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3 000 000 $3 000 000 $
DG
M-NTC
UFA - 2
Logo de Bruins de Boston
1 000 000 $1 000 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
Logo de Ducks d'Anaheim
425 000 $425 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 1

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1 févr. 2023 à 17 h 56
#26
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Modifié 1 févr. 2023 à 18 h 5
Quoting: DefenseFirst
Alright, lets take this one by one - Frederic vs Garland. I think you’re taking a really overly simplistic approach, and kind of cherry picking too. If we’re talking career averages, what are we doing? I really don’t care what Garland did in arizona a couple years ago. Frederic is coming into his own and Garland is really struggling. I say this as kind of a garland fan. I’ve been on the ice with the guy, he’s awesome…but he’s undeniably struggling while Frederic is thriving.

It also seems like you’re not really looking at the role. Neither player is cracking the top six, and neither player is getting PP time. So, first examine the identity of the line these guys would play on…then look at what they’ve done at even strength.
Garland: 657 minutes - 8 goals - 10 assists - 18 points.
Frederic: 517 minutes - 10 goals - 8 assists - 18 points.

So frederic is producing more…much more. For 20% of the price. And he seems to be getting better daily.

Then we’ve got Carlo. I don’t even know if I should bother. If you’re actually telling me how many points carlo has in the playoffs, I think you’re just missing the point of Brandon carlo, and hockey in general. I also don’t really care what he did last year. It was a bad year for him. He’s been utterly fantastic this year. We’ve also seen him be dominant in the playoffs in the past. He was the best player on the ice the last series the bruins played against toronto - for either side. Put it this way. If Vancouver had Carlo and Frederic, and the bruins had Schenn and Garland, I would happily include two first round picks + in the exchange to get Carlo and Frederic out of Vancouver. It’s just such a horrible idea. Carlo is one of the biggest reasons that the bruins have the lowest GAA in the league by a ridiculous margin.

Toews - We all know what he was, but it isn’t 2015. He’s not the same guy, and I just can’t imagine how anyone would think he’s necessary.

Overall theme here - aside from god awful value - go take a look at the standings. This team doesn’t need major surgery. They’re on pace to break league records. They’re first in GAA by a mile. They’re three goals away from being first in goals for too. They’ve got the best PK% in the league, and you’ve ripped maybe their most important penalty killer off the roster. This run has been really fun, lets hope that Sweeney doesn’t trash the team like this would.


A few things. You are making the assumption more minutes = more production. That's not true. As you mentioned Garland is getting better ice time - that means better quality of competition. Frederic who I really like is getting bottom pairing D almost every shift. You know how Hall was racking up points on the 3rd line but not so much with 63 & 37.

Also Garland Really struggling is putting up the same as an excellig Frederic. They are 1.5years apart in age & I am not talking about a few years ago in Az. Last year he had a career high in pts with 52. This year, he has more points on an awful team that just traded their captain and signed a guy who is a questionable teammate to like 9×8.

Carlo - I was showing his lack of anything. He was awful last season in the playoffs - why? because the secret is out. All you have to do is hit the gentle giant. The playoffs before that the Islanders hit him out of the line up. I understand Carlo is a shut down guy. So is forbort. So is Schenn. Yes, Carlo is better, but as you mentioned $ with Garland, Forbort is 25% less and will probably come in the same or less next contract.

Also - you say you don't care what Garland did over the last 3 years, but you care about what Carlo did in 2018-19 (4 years ago) ? He was injured in his 1st two seasons and was knocked out of another playoff series. He was good against Toronto because they don't hit (& kadri was out).

Derek Forbort was twice as good as Carlo last year in the playoffs and hasn't been too far behind him this season. Carlo getting 17s more per game.

It does not hurt this team. This team does need some adds. Major overhaul - no, but your #4 dman and a b6 foward is not a major overhaul.

Are you really feeling ok if any of the center miss a series? Yeah, Zacha could fill in, but that slides smith into top 6 or puts frederic coyle smith back together which was great last playoff.

Also - aquiring a guy like Garland would give them some flexibilty with Debrusk in the offseason. Example: he keeps up his play and wants 6-7m - are you paying him? Or you could use a piece to get a center. A 30 goal scorer with a 4m Cap has value. Or keep him and move Hall. Point is options.

Do you really think Frederic's ceiling is much higher than 20/25? That's literally Garland's bad season.

Also - the Cassidy/Montgomery system is nasty & the Bruins have been tops in GA for over a decade +. A few slips, but pretty much their identity.
1 févr. 2023 à 17 h 56
#27
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Quoting: DefenseFirst
I think i kinda just did that for him. This so obviously makes the bruins worse now


Nope.
1 févr. 2023 à 18 h 7
#28
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Quoting: IconicHawk
What indications are there that he’ll do Jack s*it in the nhl?

His upside at this stage is fringe NHL/Top pairing AHL defensemen


Didn't you just post every non nhl dman the hawks have?

Take a look zborils wjc and ohl numbers. Look a lot like the guys you mentioned.
1 févr. 2023 à 18 h 20
#29
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Quoting: Propeller09
A few things. You are making the assumption more minutes = more production. That's not true. As you mentioned Garland is getting better ice time - that means better quality of competition. Frederic who I really like is getting bottom pairing D almost every shift. You know how Hall was racking up points on the 3rd line but not so much with 63 & 37.

Also Garland Really struggling is putting up the same as an excellig Frederic. They are 1.5years apart in age & I am not talking about a few years ago in Az. Last year he had a career high in pts with 52. This year, he has more points on an awful team that just traded their captain and signed a guy who is a questionable teammate to like 9×8.

Carlo - I was showing his lack of anything. He was awful last season in the playoffs - why? because the secret is out. All you have to do is hit the gentle giant. The playoffs before that the Islanders hit him out of the line up. I understand Carlo is a shut down guy. So is forbort. So is Schenn. Yes, Carlo is better, but as you mentioned $ with Garland, Forbort is 25% less and will probably come in the same or less next contract.

Also - you say you don't care what Garland did over the last 3 years, but you care about what Carlo did in 2018-19 (4 years ago) ? He was injured in his 1st two seasons and was knocked out of another playoff series. He was good against Toronto because they don't hit (& kadri was out).

Derek Forbort was twice as good as Carlo last year in the playoffs and hasn't been too far behind him this season. Carlo getting 17s more per game.

It does not hurt this team. This team does need some adds. Major overhaul - no, but your #4 dman and a b6 foward is not a major overhaul.

Are you really feeling ok if any of the center miss a series? Yeah, Zacha could fill in, but that slides smith into top 6 or puts frederic coyle smith back together which was great last playoff.

Also - aquiring a guy like Garland would give them some flexibilty with Debrusk in the offseason. Example: he keeps up his play and wants 6-7m - are you paying him? Or you could use a piece to get a center. A 30 goal scorer with a 4m Cap has value. Or keep him and move Hall. Point is options.

Do you really think Frederic's ceiling is much higher than 20/25? That's literally Garland's bad season.

Also - the Cassidy/Montgomery system is nasty & the Bruins have been tops in GA for over a decade +. A few slips, but pretty much their identity.


No - he produces more with fewer minutes.

You’re right it doesn’t hurt this team - it kills this team. I’ll take tampa over them all day with these moves. You know how people say, “ohhh so and so is fired if they make this trade?” I think this is the level beyond that. If Sweeney even mentioned the carlo trade to Neely I’m pretty sure that would be his last day as the GM of the bruins. It’s just inconceivably bad.

This is absolutely a major overhaul. I would certainly make the case that carlo is the 3, not the 4. You’ve rebuilt two thirds of the third line - one of the best third lines in the league - and there’s nothing that would make anyone who’s paid attention think that its changed for the better.

Top four - way worse. Destroyed. F’d in half.
Third line - maybe lateral move if we’re lucky
Cap? Oh much worse.
Future? - way way way worse.

This is the most self destructive trade I’ve ever seen a fan propose (for any fanbase), maybe behind the works of @harryharryharry

Just truly dreadful.
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1 févr. 2023 à 18 h 23
#30
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Quoting: IconicHawk
What indications are there that he’ll do Jack s*it in the nhl?

His upside at this stage is fringe NHL/Top pairing AHL defensemen


Last year before tearing his ACL he was the bruins best shot LD. He was really good. Clearly, that didn’t carry over this year, but that was partly due to it being more or less impossible to crack the bruins d group unless you’re a legit top four.
1 févr. 2023 à 18 h 25
#31
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Quoting: DefenseFirst
No - he produces more with fewer minutes.

You’re right it doesn’t hurt this team - it kills this team. I’ll take tampa over them all day with these moves. You know how people say, “ohhh so and so is fired if they make this trade?” I think this is the level beyond that. If Sweeney even mentioned the carlo trade to Neely I’m pretty sure that would be his last day as the GM of the bruins. It’s just inconceivably bad.

This is absolutely a major overhaul. I would certainly make the case that carlo is the 3, not the 4. You’ve rebuilt two thirds of the third line - one of the best third lines in the league - and there’s nothing that would make anyone who’s paid attention think that its changed for the better.

Top four - way worse. Destroyed. F’d in half.
Third line - maybe lateral move if we’re lucky
Cap? Oh much worse.
Future? - way way way worse.

This is the most self destructive trade I’ve ever seen a fan propose (for any fanbase), maybe behind the works of harryharryharry

Just truly dreadful.


Amazing with all your spot on hockey opinions you aren’t in a front office somewhere. You’re comments always make me cringe a little… check in on your loved ones
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1 févr. 2023 à 18 h 26
#32
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Quoting: harryharryharry
Amazing with all your spot on hockey opinions you aren’t in a front office somewhere. You’re comments always make me cringe a little… check in on your loved ones


Stop talking about the loved ones on an anonymous Internet forum and just make better ACGMs. This was lame. Really lame. Be better.
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1 févr. 2023 à 18 h 27
#33
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Quoting: DefenseFirst
Stop talking about the loved ones on an anonymous Internet forum and just make better ACGMs. This was lame. Really lame. Be better.


Make a single ACGM
1 févr. 2023 à 18 h 29
#34
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Quoting: harryharryharry
Make a single ACGM


I have. And guess what, they make sense.

What you can do is click on my name, and see them. Got it, sport? Good job.
1 févr. 2023 à 18 h 34
#35
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Quoting: harryharryharry
Amazing with all your spot on hockey opinions you aren’t in a front office somewhere. You’re comments always make me cringe a little… check in on your loved ones


You don't have to be in the front office to recognize what are realistic moves for BOS....

If you don't want people to post comments criticizing your acgm's, don't submit the acgm.
1 févr. 2023 à 20 h 10
#36
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Quoting: KennyBoi
You don't have to be in the front office to recognize what are realistic moves for BOS....

If you don't want people to post comments criticizing your acgm's, don't submit the acgm.


Or just make it better and not crazy
1 févr. 2023 à 20 h 13
#37
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Quoting: DefenseFirst
No - he produces more with fewer minutes.

You’re right it doesn’t hurt this team - it kills this team. I’ll take tampa over them all day with these moves. You know how people say, “ohhh so and so is fired if they make this trade?” I think this is the level beyond that. If Sweeney even mentioned the carlo trade to Neely I’m pretty sure that would be his last day as the GM of the bruins. It’s just inconceivably bad.

This is absolutely a major overhaul. I would certainly make the case that carlo is the 3, not the 4. You’ve rebuilt two thirds of the third line - one of the best third lines in the league - and there’s nothing that would make anyone who’s paid attention think that its changed for the better.

Top four - way worse. Destroyed. F’d in half.
Third line - maybe lateral move if we’re lucky
Cap? Oh much worse.
Future? - way way way worse.

This is the most self destructive trade I’ve ever seen a fan propose (for any fanbase), maybe behind the works of harryharryharry

Just truly dreadful.


You hit me with nothing but an opinion and an incorrect statement. Frederic has less points than Garland, this year and throught their careers.

Again, it's a fairly minor move. Make Toews 4c and keep 3rd line.

Garland > Frederic
Toews > Smith

Yes, they take a hit on D, but I think they can pick up slack there.
1 févr. 2023 à 20 h 24
#38
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Quoting: KennyBoi
You don't have to be in the front office to recognize what are realistic moves for BOS....

If you don't want people to post comments criticizing your acgm's, don't submit the acgm.


"People" lol.
1 févr. 2023 à 20 h 25
#39
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Quoting: Propeller09
You hit me with nothing but an opinion and an incorrect statement. Frederic has less points than Garland, this year and throught their careers.

Again, it's a fairly minor move. Make Toews 4c and keep 3rd line.

Garland > Frederic
Toews > Smith

Yes, they take a hit on D, but I think they can pick up slack there.


Fewer, not less.

I was talking strictly even strength. They actually now have identical point totals. More goals for frederic though, in fewer games, and way fewer games in a top 9 role.

If it’s a minor move then why on earth make it? Frederic is way cheaper and fits that lines identity better. Younger, more physical, and will be cheaper long term. Honestly, might have higher upside too.

Toews is better than smith. For sure. But remind me, what does that matter? They don’t play the same position, and one certainly wouldn’t be replacing the other.

The d…the primary reason this team is so good, gets destroyed, short and long term.

There’s nothing to gain, there’s everything to lose. Yack
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1 févr. 2023 à 20 h 25
#40
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Quoting: Propeller09
"People" lol.


What?
1 févr. 2023 à 21 h 14
#41
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Quoting: Propeller09
"People" lol.


Who else will comment? Animals? lol
2 févr. 2023 à 19 h 2
#42
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Quoting: DefenseFirst
What?


Quoting: KennyBoi
Who else will comment? Animals? lol


Here, I'll help.

"If you don't want me or him"
"If you don't want us"

You also brought him into the conversation.

Also "people" could be taken like you are trolls, but who knows.

Cheers.
2 févr. 2023 à 19 h 5
#43
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Quoting: Propeller09
Here, I'll help.

"If you don't want me or him"
"If you don't want us"

You also brought him into the conversation.

Also "people" could be taken like you are trolls, but who knows.

Cheers.


Myself and DefenseFirst aren't the only ones being critical of his acgm's. Have you seen his posts? So yes, PEOPLE. Not sure what's so hard to understand here.
2 févr. 2023 à 19 h 25
#44
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Quoting: Propeller09
Here, I'll help.

"If you don't want me or him"
"If you don't want us"

You also brought him into the conversation.

Also "people" could be taken like you are trolls, but who knows.

Cheers.


Or people could just mean….people?
2 févr. 2023 à 23 h 26
#45
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Quoting: DefenseFirst
Or people could just mean….people?


It was you and him sarcasm
2 févr. 2023 à 23 h 30
#46
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Quoting: KennyBoi
Myself and DefenseFirst aren't the only ones being critical of his acgm's. Have you seen his posts? So yes, PEOPLE. Not sure what's so hard to understand here.


Lol. You brought him into this. You tagged him.

Why? Because you are a troll.

Cheers.
2 févr. 2023 à 23 h 44
#47
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Quoting: Propeller09
It was you and him sarcasm


And everyone else.
2 févr. 2023 à 23 h 46
#48
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Quoting: Propeller09
Lol. You brought him into this. You tagged him.

Why? Because you are a troll.

Cheers.

No he didn’t. I did. I did because this ACGM looks like one of his - known for going way over the top, and making big moves that make the team worse.

No ones trolling here. The only one that thinks this makes the boston bruins of 2022-2023 better is you. We’re taking the normal opinion, and you’re being defensive and calling us trolls. Don’t be that guy.
3 févr. 2023 à 0 h 22
#49
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Quoting: Propeller09
Lol. You brought him into this. You tagged him.

Why? Because you are a troll.

Cheers.


I didn't know having realistic outlooks for BOS makes you a troll.
3 févr. 2023 à 12 h 36
#50
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Quoting: DefenseFirst
No he didn’t. I did. I did because this ACGM looks like one of his - known for going way over the top, and making big moves that make the team worse.

No ones trolling here. The only one that thinks this makes the boston bruins of 2022-2023 better is you. We’re taking the normal opinion, and you’re being defensive and calling us trolls. Don’t be that guy.


Quoting: KennyBoi
I didn't know having realistic outlooks for BOS makes you a troll.


Quoting: KennyBoi
I didn't know having realistic outlooks for BOS makes you a troll.


Quoting: DefenseFirst
No he didn’t. I did. I did because this ACGM looks like one of his - known for going way over the top, and making big moves that make the team worse.

No ones trolling here. The only one that thinks this makes the boston bruins of 2022-2023 better is you. We’re taking the normal opinion, and you’re being defensive and calling us trolls. Don’t be that guy.


No, I could care less what you think & it's not like 40 people agreed with you. It's you two.

You brought some person not involved at all into for nonother reason that to (attempt) to troll them. Not really a lot of room for argument there.

He was not in thread. You brought him into to troll and make yourself feel better. It's weird. If you notice, this isn't uncommon with you two.

I am not the GM. I think this helps them win now. I don't mind thoughtful arguments or reasons. You provided no actual reasons or facts and acted like you did. You didn't.

It's your opinion and that is fine, but don't like it's anything more. You keep referencing "people". It's not. It's you two.

You seem to miss the part where one team (fan base) will feel like it's too much or little. When I make these, My thought is, I'd rather give up too much than too little. It's the base of the deal. The premise. Add a pick or prospect if it floats your boat. Honestly, I don't care.
 
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