Niemela is untouchable sorry.

Keep him for that return. That's a bad deal for Detroit.

Caps have no need for either player so therefore --> decline.

I’d kinda disagree with this actually. It would make forwards more complicated but Kubalik does have 30 points in 40 games and would be at a $1.25 cap hit next year, which could make him an interesting buy. Agree with you on Suter though, completely unnecessary, but Kubalik for a 1st and 50% retained could end up being awesome, especially if they can’t bring back Milano after this year.

I didn't think about that. I was just assuming that Milano would sign for similar pay next year (under $1.5mil to $2mil). But that is a good point

Just not sure who I would want to come out of the lineup...

Yeah, it's a tough decision. I think I would probably boot either Sheary or Johansson out of the lineup but it would be a very unique problem to have.

Why’s it a bad deal for Detroit ?

Adding a RHD as the corner piece of the deal, just to play on our 3rd pair, a late 1st and a late 3rd(very low probability of that piece ever being even an NHL player) for our best trade chip(with retention) and a lock down LHD (that we SHOULD be extending). Detroit loses that trade easily. Toronto doesn't have, or is willing, to trade the pieces for Bertuzzi. They're probably the single worst trade partner to move him to.

This draft is deep so, the odds are higher of the late 1st rounder panning out. Hronek has just another year on his deal and we don’t know if he’ll be re-signed, not to mention Neimela has top 2 potential IMO, but with Seider he’d play 2nd pairing. Toronto likely wouldn’t extend Maatta so, we’d have a shot at him in the offseason just like anyone else.

Meh... Neimela is not a given, bird in the hand....

I might be the highest on Neimela out of anyone but, even I can acknowledge that of course he’s not a given - No prospect is. We’re light on RHD, and we’re talking about moving two UFA’s, that’s not quite a bird in hand…

That’s cute

But you're also talking about moving our best trade chip for a position we don't need and not a given player at that. It's not even about value, it's about fit and need.

Detroit needs to be loading up on futures that we can draft and develop. I trust Yzerman's draft record of scouting and talent evaluation far more than Dubas.

I also don't know what it is about Finland, but they don't seem to produce impact defensemen (good with forwards and goalie, but defense?), so how much of what Niemela is doing over seas is even a good barometer of NHL readiness or success? Other than Heiskenan, I can't think of one other legit top 2 defensemen in the league. Maata is probably the next best and he's realistically a 3rd pair guy on a GREAT team (top 4 on most). I just don't feel like Finland's defensive systems translate well to the NHL, so I'm not even that high on him as a prospect in the first place.

I can appreciate the historic nature of your opinion of a player without knowing much about the player specifically. History sometimes is helpful to get a simple idea of a player. Admittedly, I think we all tend to do that even though it obviously doesn’t translate accurately all the time and why would it?

How many really good German defenders are there in the NHL? One?

I like that you brought up Maatta in reference to Neimela because, before he broke into the league he was a very highly regarded two way defense prospect with a very high offensive upside and skating ability. Topi actually reminds me of the pre-NHL Olli but an even better skating version. Obviously with the injuries Maatta has had and the adjustments he’s made to salvage his career are admirable; he’s nowhere near what he was expected to become and obviously having his career derailed by injuries and whatnot certainly had an effect on the trajectory of his career.

Let me reiterate, I am extremely high on Neimela, higher than most. His body of work at the WJC was all I needed to see to form that opinion. I think he will be a special player. Truthfully, I’d trade Bertuzzi straight up for him.

Im not sure I agree with you on RHD not being a position of need - I certainly think it is. Hronek has only a year left on his deal and aside from Seider, there really isn’t much else to speak on the right side throughout the organization. At least at Center we have a high end prospect in Kasper and perhaps more in players like Amadeus Lombardi.

Neimela might be a year away and that would fall in line perfectly with Hronek’s potential departure. Unless you want to dish out $8.5m to Hronek? Wouldn’t it make more sense to have depth at a position where you potentially have to make a tough decision about whether to re-sign a player like Hronek or perhaps trade him for another position of need since you have (cheaper) reinforcements lined up to do so?

The German hockey program isn't a good comparison, as they have just started to develop NHL players in recent years, Finland has been one of the top 5 hockey countries in the world for a long time. I can't even pinpoint what it is about their systems, but I just don't care for Finnish defenders, when they're not playing within a Finnish system.

With all that said, your points on organizational depth, what to do with Hronek, etc is all valid, I guess I'd just rather see that addressed in free agency and through our own drafts, not by trading our best trade chip for a player that I am not nearly as high on as you. The WJC always gets everyone all hyped up or down on players and although it can be a part of the picture, it isn't the whole picture and I always pump the brakes either way when it comes to individual player's performances in the WJC.

Yeah, I feel you for sure on the Finnish defenders, they’re almost like the unsuccessful Swedish guys that play too much of a finesse brand of hockey that doesn’t translate to the NHL game and they just get bullied in the league. I just view this particular player as the exception and not the rule.

I didn’t care much either way whether or not he was a dominant player at the WJC (which he was), it was more so his assertive style of play on both ends of the ice and skating that caught my eye every time he was on the ice. He is far and away their best prospect and if they trade him, it’ll be a severe misstep on Toronto’s part.

I think people forget that we also have Tuomisto in the system. Best u24 d-man in the Liiga. Even better than Niemelä. Gotta remember also that Finnish Liiga is probably the most defensive pro-leaque in the world. A lot of low scoring games. I am from Finland btw.

I like Tuomisto but, I don’t see how he could be better than Niemela. Isn’t he in North America playing college hockey?