Alright I said I'd burn down TOR if I saw another Hathaway Holl trade. Getting the gasoline. Caps are never doing that trade. They are stacked on the right side and Hathaway is amazing and plays the style the Caps love.

lol my bad

How about Holl and a 4th/prospect?

Alternatively I dont need to do that trade but would mean keeping Holl as our 7D and then signing a $1m 4LW UFA. Which is doable also.

Just like Holl would be 7th D for you guys, he likely would be for caps too. On most contenders he’s gonna be 6/7D.

Okay fair. Basically what I was trying to achieve was Holl for a lower AAV decent 4LW. Whichever team is willing to deal for that would be happy.

I dont know...

Jeannot makes 800k and with less than 100 games in the NHL has like 48 pts. Hes just scratching the surface. Kerfoot is an offensive comparable, but not age/contract/or career projection comparable.

Without stirring the Leaf massive, I think we saw a bit more about Durzi last year than Sandin, and I personally think I'd rather have Durzi or at least mark him as more valuable.

That's a hell of a 6/7 defenceman

Durzi padded his stats on the PP. He's overrated on here. He looks like he'll be a decent 3rd pair PP specialist but nothing more. He's definitely not going to be a top pair guy. Sandin has more experience, a way higher ceiling, is younger and way better underlying stats.

Maybe, Sandin has played more games over 3 seasons, but Durzi had 27 pts in 64 games, which would be career highs for Sandin. They are very comparable, BUT Durzi is a RD, which are more valuable and has a bit more physical edge. While SWandin is like 6 months younger, Sandin has also had way more North American pro time than Durzi. I think its wrong to say who has the better ceiling right now. And alot of underlying stats have alot to do with the team and its success, and as we know the Leafs are a regular season powerhouse
Its a small bit about Sandin and his sandpaper remarks about being brought up/sent down to the AHL and not signing yet. BUT most important is while Sandin was 7th/8th among Leafs dmen in icetime
VERY similar, but from what Ive seen I'll have Durzi.

Sandin is much better than Durzi, leaf fans need to stop it with this nonsense.

Leafs fans shouldn’t want to move him so bad then

A few things wrong there. Durzi is a year and a half older than Sandin. Durzi is from north America and has only played the north american game. Sandin definitely has sandpaper, look up what he did to Wheeler a while back. Durzi was given the #1 PP job for a stretch last season which is where he got more than half his points. Durzi is an offensive RD who isn't great defensively. Give Sandin the same amount of games on the #1 PP and I would wager he would score a lot more than Durzi and be way better defensively. Durzi is going to be a decent depth guy but he's not projecting to be a top pair star. He's a 3rd pair PP specialist.

How? In what way? Aren;t you just saying your opinion that Sandin is "much better" or has the higher ceiling? What evidence promotes this?

Just not sure why you believe one to be so much better than the other?

I agree completely. However, they will need to make a move or two. Kerfoot makes the most sense and even then, they don't need to move him. They will have options. And despite everyone on here likes to shout all the time. There are many teams with enough space to afford Kerfoot and his contract is a bargain for what he brings to the table. Also, he will likely have a tonne of value at the deadline.

In the case of Holl and Kerfoot, TO doesn't want to move them but may need to but they also have options as well. Both contracts are easy to fit for many teams and both are good players. Come closer to the start of the season, teams are going to end up having holes.

Arent those your opinions though? You believe Sandin to be way better defensively. You believe that Durzi is just a PP specialist.

I mean Sandin was 7th or 8th among Leafs dmen in ice time, what makes you think he'll ever sniff 1st pp time on a regular basis?

I just think you are stating your hopes/opinions

Underlying stats, age, pedigree, etc etc. Durzi was nothing prior to this last season where he got a bunch of time on the #1 PP and now everyone thinks he's the next Karlsson

He got hurt, and he's young on a team that had a lot of defensive depth. All you are doing is drawing conclusions based on points over 1 season. As I have mentioned, underlying stats show Sandin as crazy effective. Durzi is a fine player but let's settle down on this overblown nonsense. When LA is healthy Durzi won't get much PP time and his stats will plummet.

Yeah I think it’s more in the middle then most of the people shouting on both sides of the Kerfoot and Holl arguments. Both players are useful and have reasonable cap hits. But I also think especially this year fitting in any extra cap is gonna be tough. Teams that could use Kerfoot for example probably don’t have the space without retention or salary coming back - neither of which the leafs would want to do. And the teams that can afford him probably aren’t contenders and while he would be useful to them they probably don’t want to spend a ton of assets for what might amount to a rental while also blocking paths for potential prospects.

I do think that once camp and preseason starts we’ll see some injuries which always adds teams to the mix for a guy like Kerfoot.

Dont think hes the next Karlsson, certainly not, but to downgrade one and promote the other on such a limited sample size if opinion, not fact. And comparing a guy from a regular season offensive powerhouse to a guy from a pretty tame offense is also false stats. One is 23 and one is 22, I just dont see a huge difference between them to label.

And IMO I haven;t seen enough of Sandin to think hes going to be a top 4 dman in the NHL. IMO the fact that its taken him three pro seasons to make the NHL, and then only play 51 games, and then to be 7th or 8th in icetime among dmen goes against an opinion that labels him better.

No one is overblowing it on my side, but you are overblowing Sandin. And that team that had a lot of defensive depth had to go and acquire two dmen who actually play defense, clear the crease and hit somebody.

IMO, both are solid young players and theres not a ton between them, but as I originally said "Without stirring the Leaf massive"... and obviously that was wishful thinking.

So you do zero research and then accuse a guy who actually has some stats to support his statement as just having an opinion is silly sir. As I mentioned you got the ages wrong, yes at this moment one is 22 and the other 23, however the 23 year old is about to turn 24. You mention a lack of North America hockey experience for Durzi but he's north american and Sandin is Swedish. So obviously the guy who was born in North America has more experience in North America. You mention stats but don't bother to look at where those points come from. You mentioned a lot of things but are either plain wrong or have nothing to support your opinion. Sandin has shown himself as a highly regarded young NHL defenceman, the only reason he didn't play more is due to injuries. I bet he would be a top 4 defenceman on a pile of teams right now but TO is a top deep with a lot of depth so they are easing him in. This is how this site works though, public opinion is all that matters on on here, the public perception is the Leaf players are always terrible.

Not sure what you are referring too here. What 2 defenceman did the Leafs go after to play defence and hit people? Gio? He's definitely not a huge bruiser. Benn? He's very obviously a depth piece to play when someone gets hurt. Or are you talking about Bogosian who was on the team 2 seasons ago when Sandin was 20? In any case, once again you are saying things that are completely wrong or have nothing to do with what is being said.

Sandin actually was on the #1 PP for the leafs last year. Now idk when he got hurt if he still was or not? Does LA have a better PP d-man than Rielly?

Huh? I didn’t post anything about Sandin..

Meant comment to be with Hammerwise.