Forums/Armchair-GM

2015-16-17 blue jays is habs now

Date de création initiale: 7 oct. 2021
Publié: 14 oct. 2021
Équipe: 2021-22 Canadiens de Montréal
Explications
Don't know how many of you follow baseball and the blue jays but the habs after thinking about this season we are that 3 year team

for those who don't know the jays went on back to back magical runs the first in 15 which came out of nowhere.
we had aging stars Donaldson and tulowitski who started dealing with injuries
price and weber are the habs version of those two
after 15 new management took over. 16 we made the playoffs and lost in the semi finals(alcs)
in 17 we went for one more run and fell short due to injuries
the following season the tank began

the habs are in an identical situation, aging stars with a couple of promising young players in the system, Caufield and Suzuki

to me the habs go for it this year, Bergevin doesn't come back(his choice) and the new management commits to this team for one year then the strong tank begins

price would have three years left(after two more seasons)
Gally and Anderson are the two largest contracts would only have 4 years left

numbers are falling into place for two more "strong" years and a tank

who's your list of candidates? I can only think of Matthieu Darche

This was made before the season by the way
Rachats de contrats
  • Karl Alzner: 1 958 333 $
ANNÉE DE REPÊCHAGERONDE 1RONDE 2RONDE 3RONDE 4RONDE 5RONDE 6RONDE 7
2022
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TBL
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2023
MTL
MTL
MTL
MTL
MTL
MTL
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2024
MTL
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TAILLE DE LA FORMATIONPLAFOND SALARIALCAP HITEXCÉDENTS BONISESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
2481 500 000 $89 726 370 $597 561 $1 475 000 $-8 226 370 $
Ailier gaucheCentreAilier droit
MTL
Drouin, Jonathan
5 500 000 $
AG
NTC
UFA - 2
MTL
Dvorak, Christian
4 450 000 $
C, AG
UFA - 4
MTL
Gallagher, Brendan
6 500 000 $
AD
NMC NTC
UFA - 6
MTL
Toffoli, Tyler
4 250 000 $
AG, AD
UFA - 3
MTL
Paquette, Cédric
950 000 $
AD, C, AG
UFA - 1
MTL
Anderson, Josh
5 500 000 $
AD
NTC
UFA - 6
MTL
Lehkonen, Artturi
2 300 000 $
AG, AD
RFA - 1
MTL
Suzuki, Nick
863 333 $
C, AD
UFA - 1
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Hoffman, Mike
4 500 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 3
MTL
Perreault, Mathieu
950 000 $
AG, C
UFA - 1
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Evans, Jake
750 000 $
C, AD
UFA - 1
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Armia, Joel
3 400 000 $
AD, AG
UFA - 4
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Caufield, Cole
880 833 $
AD
RFA - 2
Défenseur gaucherDéfenseur droitierGardien de but
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Edmundson, Joel
3 500 000 $
DG
NTC
UFA - 3
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Petry, Jeff
6 250 000 $
DD
NMC NTC
UFA - 4
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Price, Carey
10 500 000 $
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NMC
UFA - 5
MTL
Chiarot, Ben
3 500 000 $
DG/DD
NTC
UFA - 1
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Savard, David
3 500 000 $
DD
UFA - 4
MTL
Allen, Jake
2 875 000 $
G
UFA - 2
MTL
Kulak, Brett
1 850 000 $
DG/DD
UFA - 1
MTL
Niku, Sami
750 000 $
DG/DD
RFA - 1
MTL
Montembeault, Samuel
750 000 $
G
RFA - 1
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Romanov, Alexander
894 167 $
DG/DD
RFA - 1
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Wideman, Chris
750 000 $
DD
UFA - 1
Laissés de côtéListe des blessés (IR)Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
MTL
Weber, Shea
7 857 143 $
DD
UFA - 5
MTL
Byron, Paul
3 400 000 $
AG, AD, C
UFA - 2

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14 oct. à 21 h 59
#1
CapMean
Rejoint: juin 2019
Messages: 65
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Ummm... no.
14 oct. à 22 h 0
#2
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Quoting: CapMean
Ummm... no.

to which part
14 oct. à 22 h 2
#3
CapMean
Rejoint: juin 2019
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Quoting: Howisjulienstillhere
to which part


All of it.
14 oct. à 22 h 3
#4
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Quoting: CapMean
All of it.


great talk, glad you made solid arguments

just want to know which part you disagree with? the comp? the rebuild is say we need?
14 oct. à 22 h 17
#5
CapMean
Rejoint: juin 2019
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Quoting: Howisjulienstillhere
great talk, glad you made solid arguments

just want to know which part you disagree with? the comp? the rebuild is say we need?


1. Those Jays were legit contenders with a bunch of star players. The Habs made a miracle run last year, but they are by no means legit contenders this year and there's not much star power there.
2. The Jays best prospects were still just that - prospects. The Habs best "prospects" (Suzuki, Caufield, Romanov) are now everyday NHLers and in two years will be entering their prime.
3. MB completed the "reset" a couple years ago, which produced one of the best prospect pools in the league. It makes no sense to start a full on rebuild at the same time Suzuki and Caufield will be entering their prime, and some or all of Norlinder, Guhle, Ylonen, Harris, Primeau, Struble, etc. will be ready to contribute on ELCs.
palhal a aimé ceci.
14 oct. à 22 h 21
#6
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Quoting: CapMean
1. Those Jays were legit contenders with a bunch of star players. The Habs made a miracle run last year, but they are by no means legit contenders this year and there's not much star power there.
2. The Jays best prospects were still just that - prospects. The Habs best "prospects" (Suzuki, Caufield, Romanov) are now everyday NHLers and in two years will be entering their prime.
3. MB completed the "reset" a couple years ago, which produced one of the best prospect pools in the league. It makes no sense to start a full on rebuild at the same time Suzuki and Caufield will be entering their prime, and some or all of Norlinder, Guhle, Ylonen, Harris, Primeau, Struble, etc. will be ready to contribute on ELCs.


Thanks for the response
Jays were legit contenders but it was more the point of a small blip of success (even if the Habs regular season sucked) and then the rebuild

This team is not anywhere close to championship level and won’t be without some high end talent which almost exclusively comes through the draft. To me there’s not even a second option The team will be so mediocre that you might as well trade some pieces and tank, price isn’t getting any younger or healthier
14 oct. à 22 h 22
#7
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Rejoint: juill. 2015
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Just because a team isn't going to be Cup contender doesn't mean a team in going to tank. The owners of the team are going to spend close to cap, so the team will never purposely tank.
Besides Montreal has too many good young players and some very untradeable veteran contracts to be "Buffalo bad".
14 oct. à 22 h 26
#8
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Quoting: palhal
Just because a team isn't going to be Cup contender doesn't mean a team in going to tank. The owners of the team are going to spend close to cap, so the team will never purposely tank.
Besides Montreal has too many good young players and some very untradeable veteran contracts to be "Buffalo bad".

Two things,
one, if your not going to be cup contenders you should tank
Two, after next season petry,savard,edmunson will have two years left, Hoffman and toffoli will have 1 and gally and Anderson 4 (those two won’t keep you out of the basement) and price will have 3 while being old and under able
Even if they don’t want to tank a ****ty team is coming very soon. Might as well make the most of it
15 oct. à 8 h 44
#9
LongtimeLeafsufferer
Rejoint: juill. 2015
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Quoting: Howisjulienstillhere
Two things,
one, if your not going to be cup contenders you should tank
Two, after next season petry,savard,edmunson will have two years left, Hoffman and toffoli will have 1 and gally and Anderson 4 (those two won’t keep you out of the basement) and price will have 3 while being old and under able
Even if they don’t want to tank a ****ty team is coming very soon. Might as well make the most of it


The only benefit of tanking is you get one better and it might be a very good draft pick....That's it.
Sens kinda tanked because their players and most expensive players were traded......that got a great return for Karlsson, good return Duchene, and a iffy return for Stone. Fact it Montreal doesn't have the type of players that are going to generate a lot in assets back if they wanted to trade them.
Most important, Montreal ownership (and their fans) will not allow Buffalo, Sens, Arizona, incompetence. for a multi year tank. Gee, Montreal had a one really poor year and they drafted 3rd overall. How did that selection of KK work out?
15 oct. à 12 h 48
#10
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Quoting: palhal
The only benefit of tanking is you get one better and it might be a very good draft pick....That's it.
Sens kinda tanked because their players and most expensive players were traded......that got a great return for Karlsson, good return Duchene, and a iffy return for Stone. Fact it Montreal doesn't have the type of players that are going to generate a lot in assets back if they wanted to trade them.
Most important, Montreal ownership (and their fans) will not allow Buffalo, Sens, Arizona, incompetence. for a multi year tank. Gee, Montreal had a one really poor year and they drafted 3rd overall. How did that selection of KK work out?


Every Habs fan I talk to would support a rebuild.
Who do the sens Have as young players? Stutzle,chabot,tkuchuk

Habs already have Suzuki,caufield and guhle with several other decent prospects, imagine if they only added one more wright, bedard or Michkov

What your suggesting is most fans fear, we do nothing and stay mediocre forever. We have several aging players, and not enough star talent to do much
15 oct. à 21 h 44
#11
CapMean
Rejoint: juin 2019
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Quoting: Howisjulienstillhere
Every Habs fan I talk to would support a rebuild.
Who do the sens Have as young players? Stutzle,chabot,tkuchuk

Habs already have Suzuki,caufield and guhle with several other decent prospects, imagine if they only added one more wright, bedard or Michkov

What your suggesting is most fans fear, we do nothing and stay mediocre forever. We have several aging players, and not enough star talent to do much


Every Habs fan I talk to is against a rebuild.

Chabot was drafted 18th, no tanking required. How did 3rd overall KK and Galchenyuk do for the Habs? How well is Buffalo's "rebuild" going? They had a generational talent in Eichel and they're still spinning tires six years later. And Edmonton have won ONE playoff round since being handed McJesus.

We need to build around the young pieces we have. Tanking and/or rebuilding would be going in the wrong direction and would be a complete crap shoot anyway.
palhal a aimé ceci.
16 oct. à 9 h 47
#12
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Modifié 16 oct. à 10 h 17
Quoting: CapMean
Every Habs fan I talk to is against a rebuild.

Chabot was drafted 18th, no tanking required. How did 3rd overall KK and Galchenyuk do for the Habs? How well is Buffalo's "rebuild" going? They had a generational talent in Eichel and they're still spinning tires six years later. And Edmonton have won ONE playoff round since being handed McJesus.

We need to build around the young pieces we have. Tanking and/or rebuilding would be going in the wrong direction and would be a complete crap shoot anyway.


we need to answer some questions
which direction are the habs going? answer is down, were probably not going to make the playoffs and the team is getting worse
how do you build around Caufield and Suzuki? either free agency/trade which leads to Lucic and skinner contracts or draft, which is a lot easier when you have top picks. now yes those two didn't work out but that can't stop you from doing what is right

all I'm saying to do is after next season trade some pieces like edmunson,savard and Petry if you can(Petry might be hard) Toffoli and Hoffman. this team won't be good in two years and instead of picking 8-12 you might as well gain picks and at the same time pick higher in the draft

don't know how you think they build around Caufield and Suzuki without top picks unless you hope they find a steal or two somewhere

Caufield and suzuki arent a strong enough core. now wright/bedard/michkov/2024/25 top 3 pick plus Caufield and Suzuki is a pretty good core if you can get a star

also you say buffalo and Edmonton, I say kings, caps,pens,blackhawks
leafs are perennial playoff team and id say the rebuild worked, they just haven't been able to finish the team to make em champions
oilers two stars are the reason they're in cup contention every year
16 oct. à 13 h 3
#13
CapMean
Rejoint: juin 2019
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Quoting: Howisjulienstillhere
we need to answer some questions
which direction are the habs going? answer is down, were probably not going to make the playoffs and the team is getting worse
how do you build around Caufield and Suzuki? either free agency/trade which leads to Lucic and skinner contracts or draft, which is a lot easier when you have top picks. now yes those two didn't work out but that can't stop you from doing what is right

all I'm saying to do is after next season trade some pieces like edmunson,savard and Petry if you can(Petry might be hard) Toffoli and Hoffman. this team won't be good in two years and instead of picking 8-12 you might as well gain picks and at the same time pick higher in the draft

don't know how you think they build around Caufield and Suzuki without top picks unless you hope they find a steal or two somewhere

Caufield and suzuki arent a strong enough core. now wright/bedard/michkov/2024/25 top 3 pick plus Caufield and Suzuki is a pretty good core if you can get a star

also you say buffalo and Edmonton, I say kings, caps,pens,blackhawks
leafs are perennial playoff team and id say the rebuild worked, they just haven't been able to finish the team to make em champions
oilers two stars are the reason they're in cup contention every year


MB just built one of the best prospect pools in the league and our direction is "down"? Sorry bud, you're delusional. As much as I hate to say it, the Bruins are a perfect example of building the right way and that's what Berge is trying to do. The draft is a complete crap shoot and even by tanking you're guaranteed nothing.

Also, no one said we had to give out trash contracts to UFAs. MB has repeatedly said you don't build a team through free agency, although he's signed a few good contracts in the last couple years.
16 oct. à 13 h 23
#14
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Quoting: CapMean
MB just built one of the best prospect pools in the league and our direction is "down"? Sorry bud, you're delusional. As much as I hate to say it, the Bruins are a perfect example of building the right way and that's what Berge is trying to do. The draft is a complete crap shoot and even by tanking you're guaranteed nothing.

Also, no one said we had to give out trash contracts to UFAs. MB has repeatedly said you don't build a team through free agency, although he's signed a few good contracts in the last couple years.


Carey price 34, Jeff Petry 34(December) Gallagher 29, Savard 31

Savard,petry have 4 years left of getting worse and price has 5

sit there with a straight face and tell me we have a shot at winning the cup in those 5 years

they have a "core" of Suzuki and Caufield who are both good but neither elite. my opinion is that you "go for it" for this year and next then "rebuild" for however long it takes

your trying to contend over those 5 years with an aging price,petry,savard,gallagher and Anderson , all of whom have ****ing massive contracts

if you could lay out a step by step plan to build around Caufield and Suzuki while staying in contention over those 5 years id love to hear it. by as ive said this team is no where close to contention for a cup as I assume you agree with as you haven't said other wise but your expecting this team to get better with multiple aging players

also you named the bruins

take a look at the leafs, blackhawks, penguins, kings they built through top picks which let them contend for a decade
17 oct. à 11 h 12
#15
CapMean
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Quoting: Howisjulienstillhere
Carey price 34, Jeff Petry 34(December) Gallagher 29, Savard 31

Savard,petry have 4 years left of getting worse and price has 5

sit there with a straight face and tell me we have a shot at winning the cup in those 5 years

they have a "core" of Suzuki and Caufield who are both good but neither elite. my opinion is that you "go for it" for this year and next then "rebuild" for however long it takes

your trying to contend over those 5 years with an aging price,petry,savard,gallagher and Anderson , all of whom have ****ing massive contracts

if you could lay out a step by step plan to build around Caufield and Suzuki while staying in contention over those 5 years id love to hear it. by as ive said this team is no where close to contention for a cup as I assume you agree with as you haven't said other wise but your expecting this team to get better with multiple aging players

also you named the bruins

take a look at the leafs, blackhawks, penguins, kings they built through top picks which let them contend for a decade


You're dumb as rocks buddy, I'm not explaining this to you again lmao.
17 oct. à 11 h 52
#16
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Modifié 17 oct. à 12 h 19
Quoting: CapMean
You're dumb as rocks buddy, I'm not explaining this to you again lmao.


Look at you, getting all upset because you can’t back up your point. It’s okay

In your magical world we’re going to get better for the next five years while having agin players on big contracts
We’ll also find a number 1 centre (not saying Suzuki is bad but we need someone just as good but preferably better), we’ll also find a number one winger as caufield is good but someone better is preferred as a number one winger

Oh and we’ll do all of this while not picking high in the draft as you believe they’ll be a playoff team real soon
17 oct. à 14 h 46
#17
CapMean
Rejoint: juin 2019
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Quoting: Howisjulienstillhere
Look at you, getting all upset because you can’t back up your point. It’s okay

In your magical world we’re going to get better for the next five years while having agin players on big contracts
We’ll also find a number 1 centre (not saying Suzuki is bad but we need someone just as good but preferably better), we’ll also find a number one winger as caufield is good but someone better is preferred as a number one winger

Oh and we’ll do all of this while not picking high in the draft as you believe they’ll be a playoff team real soon


Besides Price, we have one player signed over $7M. We have a bunch of guys signed to reasonable contracts that we can move for assets whenever necessary. AGAIN, the draft is a crap shoot. If you move guys for picks/prospects when you're close to the cap, that's the best way to build through the draft, since each pick is literally a lottery ticket. Tanking guarantees NOTHING. For every team that won a Cup after a lengthy rebuild, there's two that never became contenders.

I think you're being overdramatic and unreasonable, so you can feel free to dodge on and find something else to whine about now.
17 oct. à 15 h 42
#18
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Quoting: CapMean
Besides Price, we have one player signed over $7M. We have a bunch of guys signed to reasonable contracts that we can move for assets whenever necessary. AGAIN, the draft is a crap shoot. If you move guys for picks/prospects when you're close to the cap, that's the best way to build through the draft, since each pick is literally a lottery ticket. Tanking guarantees NOTHING. For every team that won a Cup after a lengthy rebuild, there's two that never became contenders.

I think you're being overdramatic and unreasonable, so you can feel free to dodge on and find something else to whine about now.


ill write this one thing and you can move on,
22.5 million dollars locked up to 5 years years of price Gallagher and Anderson all of which will be declining. thats over 25 percent of your salary cap

I like Suzuki and Caufield but I don't believe they are a number 1 centre and winger. Montreal could truly use another star centre and winger. Your hope is to what? draft a those stars not in the top 10 of the draft, thats tough. Drafting is a **** show but its less of a **** show when you pick top 10 and especially top 5. You know what else is a **** show? Free agency, not sure where they get a star free agent without paying through the nose and giving out a massive contract. They could make a trade, but your going to have to find a star player that a team is willing to give up and isn't on an atrocious con tract


I completely agree that you build through the draft, which its made a hell of a lot easier when you draft top 10 and especially top 5

Don't get me wrong I hope that your right and we can continue to develop a good team and that those massive contracts don't hinder that chance.
But with needing a star centre and a star winger, and having those contracts im not convinced it possible
 
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