Washington is a very good comparable as for years they could not either get past round 1 round 2 especially when they faced the penguins and rangers. The team did not have playoff success for a long time and fans started to doubt if they ever would. then in 2018 they got their **** together and won the cup

if we look at Washington before their cup in the last 10 years

2008 (Round 1 lost in 7 to PhI)
2009 (Round 1 lost in 7 to NYR)
2010 (Round 1 lost in 7 to MTL)
2011 (Round 2 lost in 4 to TMP)
2012 (Round 2 lost in 7 to NYR)
2013 (Round 1 lost in 7 to NYR)
2014 (Did not make it)
2015 (Round 2 lost in 7 to NYR)
2016 (Round 2 lost in 6 to Pit)
2017 (Round 2 lost in 7 to Pit)
2018 (Won in 5 vs. Veg)
2019-2021 (round 1 exits)

so in 10 years they had

1 not make it
4 first round exits in 7 games
1 second round exit in 4 games
1 second round exit in 6 games
and 2 second round exits in 7 games
with a cup in the end

Anyone that thought Nylander was a "playoff dud" was, is, and will always be a hater. That's fine.


2016-17 6 1 3 4 4
2017-18 7 1 3 4 -3
2018-19 7 1 2 3 1
2019-20 5 2 2 4 -3
2020-21 7 5 3 8 3

Career 32 10 13 23 2

Perhaps you're misunderstanding me here, I'm not saying Nylander's bad actually I've went on record here many times stating the opposite. My point was most deemed Nylander a playoff dud prior to this year and he changed the narrative, Marner and Matthews could do the same next year (although I thought AM did very well).

You called him "'mister", like I'm supposed to have some sort of respect for the man. And all that has about as much to with his knowledge of running a hockey club as his player resume you introduced as evidence.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this part.

And yes, I agree, Spezza is awesome. And in the presser today Dubas stated that he and Keefe would have to sit down and discuss bringing him back. That tells you EVERYTHING you need to know about the people running the show here. They have to DISCUSS bringing Spezza, who already said he wants to, come back.

Maybe I am.

I admit I'm still not over that collapse. Maybe come training camp I'll be ready to look at our group and get excited again.

What makes it a bad comparison is saying the Washington Capitals stuck with the same group of players and finally won it. I can find exactly two players that were together for the decade window you reference.

Holtby was there for 7 years when they won, Orlov 6, Carlson 9, Backstrom 11, Ovechkin 12. Kuznetsov and Wilson were both in there 5th. 6 current Leafs have been here for these 5 years and 4 of them were rookies that first surprise year they squeaked in to play the Caps, so it’s still very much a fair comparison

Actually caps made it to game 7 and 2 of those years of the second round that’s 7 games farther then toronto has yet. Plus Toronto’s team is much better then what ovi had so that’s also another factor young ovi didnt have 4 all stars on his team like matthews does with, marner, nylander Tavares and Reilly and even muzzin is a solid defencemen probably plays top line for half the league

Then pick one of those years to say it took the core this long. You don't get to say it took a decade when the majority of the team was there five years. It's not a fair comparison to move the goalposts to fit your narrative.

Better part of a decade then since you want to argue semantics. It’s not like the Leafs core hasn’t changed over the last five seasons. Current core only been together for three seasons and two have been shortened by covid, Current coaching staff has never had one single full training camp. No one is denying they underperformed expectations but only reason to move one of the big 4 would be to move Marner out because covid screwed up that cap continuing to rise and that’s not that great of a reason just yet

3-4 years isn't "semantics", champ.

But you keep using this as some example as to why this collection of overpaid, no-heart players need coddling and more chances.

jUst wAIt UntiLNExT yEAr!!!!

That's because Shanahan/Dubas are either stupid or stubborn like the idiot coach that didn't lift a finger to turn around an anemic power-play that lasted for weeks.

Washington is a very good comparable as for years they could not either get past round 1 round 2 especially when they faced the penguins and rangers. The team did not have playoff success for a long time and fans started to doubt if they ever would. then in 2018 they got their **** together and won the cup

if we look at Washington before their cup in the last 10 years

2008 (Round 1 lost in 7 to PhI)
2009 (Round 1 lost in 7 to NYR)
2010 (Round 1 lost in 7 to MTL)
2011 (Round 2 lost in 4 to TMP)
2012 (Round 2 lost in 7 to NYR)
2013 (Round 1 lost in 7 to NYR)
2014 (Did not make it)
2015 (Round 2 lost in 7 to NYR)
2016 (Round 2 lost in 6 to Pit)
2017 (Round 2 lost in 7 to Pit)
2018 (Won in 5 vs. Veg)
2019-2021 (round 1 exits)

so in 10 years they had

1 not make it
4 first round exits in 7 games
1 second round exit in 4 games
1 second round exit in 6 games
and 2 second round exits in 7 games
with a cup in the end

and in most of those years Ovechkin was scoring 50 goals a season

Tavares has been with the club three years, two of them shortened with covid and wasn’t there for all but 10 minutes of this series. Muzzin has been there for less than 3 seasons.
Young Ovi played with Backstrom, Semin, Mike Green, and Fedorov. They weren’t exactly devoid of talented players

Washington is a very good comparable as for years they could not either get past round 1 round 2 especially when they faced the penguins and rangers. The team did not have playoff success for a long time and fans started to doubt if they ever would. then in 2018 they got their **** together and won the cup

if we look at Washington before their cup in the last 10 years

2008 (Round 1 lost in 7 to PhI)
2009 (Round 1 lost in 7 to NYR)
2010 (Round 1 lost in 7 to MTL)
2011 (Round 2 lost in 4 to TMP)
2012 (Round 2 lost in 7 to NYR)
2013 (Round 1 lost in 7 to NYR)
2014 (Did not make it)
2015 (Round 2 lost in 7 to NYR)
2016 (Round 2 lost in 6 to Pit)
2017 (Round 2 lost in 7 to Pit)
2018 (Won in 5 vs. Veg)
2019-2021 (round 1 exits)

so in 10 years they had

1 not make it
4 first round exits in 7 games
1 second round exit in 4 games
1 second round exit in 6 games
and 2 second round exits in 7 games
with a cup in the end

and in most of those years Ovechkin was scoring 50 goals a season