bubble team imo, but you should put tanev in there. hes good

I think they're definitely a playoff team, but they're just a good team - not a great team. So I think the furthest they go would be 2nd round exit. This team still needs a 1C and another top pairing defenseman. With that, I think this team would be deadly.

I would say Cirelli is a 1C. Somehow, he's still underrated.

Dunn and toews are top pairing caliber defenseman.

Cirelli is not a 1C -- there are not many true 1C's in the NHL anyway, and Cirelli is not among them. He can definitely turn into a 1C, but he is not currently there. And Cirelli is severely overrated on this site -- people give him $8m+ offersheets all the time on this site.

As far as Dunn and Toews, I like them. They're fine, but neither of them are 1/2 defenseman. But if you added another top pairing defenseman to play with McAvoy, this team would have a real shot.

As it stands, I don't see this team winning a cup.

How are you coming to conclusion that toews and Dunn aren’t top pairing defenseman + cirelli is a 1C. Points? The way their coaches use them? Eye test?

dunn plays like 16 mins a night... how is he a top pairing D yet?

He’s elite at driving play offensively, above average defensively and elite on the PP. just because his coach doesn’t give him more minutes does not mean he’s not a top pairing caliber defenseman. Esa lindell plays on the top pairing for Dallas and he’s terrible.

yeah because he plays in a sheltered role. If you increase his minutes and play him against tougher competition, his results will likely lower. Im not saying he wont be a top pairing D. I think its likely he will be. But ATM, going into the 2020 Stanley Cup Playoffs, id much rather have a more established guy whose used to logging 20+ mins a night

Quality of competition does not impact a player's performance as much as quality of teammate. Higher quality of completion usually means a stronger gain in quality of teammate , so Dunn would likely perform just as well, if not better playing more minutes on the top pairing.

completely disagree. there is a reason why "sheltering" certain players can be effective for teams. Take the example of Jack Johnson in Pittsburgh. To start the season he was playing fine in a sheltered 3rd pairing role. As the injuries staked up, he ended up playing over 20 mins a night and looked awful. Sheltered minutes absolutely matter. Again, Im not saying Dunn isn't gonna be a top pairing D. im saying we dont know if he is yet.

Going from 16 minutes a night to 24+ a night playing top-pair defense in the playoffs is not the same thing. If Dunn is not a top pairing defenseman RIGHT NOW. He has the potential to be, but that is in the future.

Johnson is a below replacement level defenseman. The only reason he was seen as good on the bottom pair is because Marino is a borderline elite defenseman and carried Johnson.

Sheltering players usually means that their quality of teammates drops more, which means its a tougher role.

The amount of minutes doesn't determine whether a defenseman is top pairing caliber or not...

its certainly an indicator. It is once again, easier to play sheltered minutes

johnson is fine in a sheltered role. Also, Johnson spent time playing with Letang who is better than Marino and he looked awful playing 20+ mins a night. Marino obviously helped Johnson, but playing in a sheltered role helped more

I never said he wasn't top pairing caliber -- just that he needs to develop into that. When you're playing behind Scandella, Faulk, and a healthy Bouwmeester, I don't think you're ready to play as a number 1/2 D in the playoffs. Take that for what you will, but you clearly won't listen to other people's opinion on this. Have a good one.

that's the difference here, you're giving your opinion based on TOI and mainstream talking points , but it's a fact that quality of teammates impacts a players performance more than quality of competition. So yes, Dunn can perform as well playing 22+ min on the top pairing right now.

Alot of good defensive players and goalies, but nothing crazy. I think a wild card team