And were technically back up to 4 trades - VGK NJ Chi - CapFriendly

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And were technically back up to 4 trades - VGK NJ Chi

Créé par: Sagecoll

Équipe: 2020-21 Rangers de New York

Date de création initiale: 8 avr. 2020

Publié: 9 avr. 2020

Mode - plafond salarial: Basique

Description

I wouldn't say the lines have anything to do with player rankings: Chytil is a better player than Strome, Kakko is better than Anderson, etc. The reason for the lines is that a) The format that has worked this year for Panarin is putting him with a pass heavy C and a defensive F. Strome (like his brother) is super pass heavy and Anderson is strong defensively. Also the goal here is to keep Chytil and Kakko together, they have good chemistry.

Why does Vegas do this deal?
1) To upgrade. Strome brings more offensively to the table than Tuch. He outscored Vegas' top 6 C's by 13 and 21 points respectively. "yes but he had Panarin's help" someone screams in the background. Panarin and Fast collectively put up 124 points.....which is less than both Smith/March combined AND Patches/Stone combined....The thinking goes, put him at 2C, and he's good for 80 points. Vegas is in win-now mode and it's unclear right now when/if Glass or Krebs will be ready for top 6 mins. Meanwhile, it's inconceivable that Tuch will have a spot in the top 6 without injury. Those wingers are pretty much set. And Tuch's big season last year featured him next to Pacioretty and Stastny....nothing to scoff at. As for $$, Strome is slated to make in the mid 5's. But with these times, who knows...

Why does NJ do this deal?
2. This deal makes sense if Subban gets the CBO. At that point, NJ needs a top pair RHD and they need to hit the cap min. Trouba makes in NJ, the prospect pool at RHD is thin (Reilly Walsh is really the only threat to touch the top 4 and he needs some time), And the cost of getting someone of Trouba's caliber elsewhere via trade is going to cost at least a 2020 1st AND a top Prospect +++. And via UFA the player will be about 5 years older with a similar cap hit. NJ gets their right side completely set for the future between Trouba/Severson, while Smith/Bahl take care of the left. And they avoid giving up a 1st, Anderson's spot in the lineup goes to Boqvist or Kuokkanen and the Devils don't miss a beat. Devil's made a deadline deal with the Rangers 2 years back and with the new GM in place, it seems like he's not at all afraid to trade with anybody in the division. And Trouba gets to stay in the NY area....

Why Does Chicago do this deal?
1. Chicago's trying to get bigger and more physical. Lemieux is that. Hajek is a solid prospect that NHL coaches seem to love and the 3rd being from Buffalo is probably a decently high 3rd. The value is right about there. Strome would normally be a 3C but he's only shown success when paired with 2 elite wingers, I figure we'll start him with 1 and see how he does.

The biggest hurdle here will be *next offseason* with 6 big RFA's on the table. That's why there's so much cap space left on the table.

Signatures de joueurs autonomes

LISTE DE RÉSERVE	ANS	CAP HIT
Lundkvist, Nils	3	925 000 $
Barron, Morgan	3	925 000 $
Wall, Tyler	2	925 000 $

RFA	ANS	CAP HIT
Anderson, Joey	1	800 000 $
Deangelo, Anthony	6	5 800 000 $
Georgiev, Alexandar	2	1 900 000 $
Strome, Dylan	5	4 750 000 $

Transactions

NYR

Tuch, Alex
Choix de 6e ronde en 2021 (VGK)

VGK

Strome, Ryan [Droits de RFA]
Choix de 4e ronde en 2021 (NYR)

NYR

Anderson, Joey [Droits de RFA]
Wood, Miles
Choix de 2e ronde en 2021 (NYI)

NJD

Trouba, Jacob

NYR

CBO

MIN

Lundqvist, Henrik

NYR

Kulak, Brett

MTL

Choix de 5e ronde en 2021 (NYR)

NYR

Strome, Dylan [Droits de RFA]

CHI

Hájek, Libor
Lemieux, Brendan [Droits de RFA]
Choix de 3e ronde en 2021 (BUF)

Rachats de contrats

Kevin Shattenkirk: 6 083 333 $
Dan Girardi: 1 111 111 $
Ryan Spooner: 300 000 $
Brad Richards: 0 $

Enfoui

Brendan Smith: 3 275 000 $ (4 350 000 $)

Repêchage	1e ronde	2e ronde	3e ronde	4e ronde	5e ronde	6e ronde	7e ronde
2020
2021
2022

FORMATION

VUE À LONG TERME

INTÉGRÉ

TEXTE INTÉGRÉ

TAILLE DE LA FORMATION	PLAFOND SALARIAL	CAP HIT	EXCÉDENTS	BONIS	ESPACE SOUS LE PLAFOND SALARIAL
21	81 500 000 $	73 088 966 $	0 $	8 362 500 $	8 411 034 $

Formation

Ailier gauche	Centre	Ailier droit
Kreider, Chris 6 500 000 $6 500 000 $ AG NMC UFA - 7	Zibanejad, Mika 5 350 000 $5 350 000 $ C NMC UFA - 2	Buchnevich, Pavel 3 250 000 $3 250 000 $ AG, AD, C UFA - 1
Panarin, Artemi 11 642 857 $11 642 857 $ AG NMC UFA - 6	Strome, Dylan 4 750 000 $4 750 000 $ C UFA - 2	Anderson, Joey 800 000 $800 000 $ AD RFA - 3
Tuch, Alex 4 750 000 $4 750 000 $ AD, AG UFA - 6	Chytil, Filip 894 166 $894 166 $ (350 000 $$350K) C, AG UFA - 1	Kakko, Kaapo 925 000 $925 000 $ (2 650 000 $$3M) AD RFA - 2
	Andersson, Lias 894 166 $894 166 $ (850 000 $$850K) C, AG RFA - 1	Gauthier, Julien 863 333 $863 333 $ (300 000 $$300K) AD UFA - 1
Wood, Miles 2 750 000 $2 750 000 $ AG UFA - 2

Défenseur gaucher	Défenseur droitier	Gardien de but
Lindgren, Ryan 925 000 $925 000 $ (212 500 $$212K) DG RFA - 1	Fox, Adam 925 000 $925 000 $ (850 000 $$850K) DD UFA - 2
Miller, K'Andre 925 000 $925 000 $ (300 000 $$300K) DG RFA - 3	Deangelo, Anthony 5 800 000 $5 800 000 $ DD UFA - 2	Shesterkin, Igor 925 000 $925 000 $ (2 850 000 $$3M) G UFA - 1
	Lundkvist, Nils 925 000 $925 000 $ DD RFA	Georgiev, Alexandar 1 900 000 $1 900 000 $ G UFA - 2
Kulak, Brett 925 000 $925 000 $ DG/DD UFA - 2

Laissés de côté	Liste des blessés (IR)	Liste des blessés à long terme (LTIR)
Staal, Marc 5 700 000 $5 700 000 $ DG NMC UFA - 1

Unités spéciales

Avantage numérique 1
Kreider, C.		Zibanejad, M.		Kakko, K.
	Panarin, A.		Deangelo, A.

Avantage numérique 2
Chytil, F.		Strome, D.		Buchnevich, P.
	Tuch, A.		Fox, A.

Infériorité numérique 1
	Andersson, L.	Anderson, J.
	Miller, K.	Fox, A.

Infériorité numérique 2
	Wood, M.	Tuch, A.
	Lindgren, R.	Kulak, B.

9 avr. 2020 à 9 h 41

Torontoleafs15

Banni

Rejoint: avr. 2020

Messages: 1,893

Mentions "j'aime": 737

Vegas would do that deal. I don't know why you would. Strome is better than Tuch.

9 avr. 2020 à 9 h 48

NYR_Mike

Rejoint: déc. 2018

Messages: 380

Mentions "j'aime": 129

Quoting: Torontoleafs15

Vegas would do that deal. I don't know why you would. Strome is better than Tuch.

I think there is a belief that Strome is a product of playing with Panarin based of what you read on here. Not an advanced stats guy so don't shoot me if i am misstating anything.

I am indifferent on trading Strome, him and Panarin whether he is a product of him or not seem to click. So it could be a mistake, however Tuch is someone I believe the Rangers would love to get their hands on. I do not watch Vegas religiously but when i do have an opportunity to watch him, he seems to play with a lot of physicality which i think some would argue that the Rangers lack.

9 avr. 2020 à 10 h 2

Sagecoll

Démarrer sujet

Rejoint: mai 2017

Messages: 6,729

Mentions "j'aime": 1,559

Quoting: NYR_Mike

Strome is better than Tuch offensively by a solid amount. Tuch is a good defender though and with Kakko opposite him at the wing, that seems necessary. Also positionally it makes sense. Strome's value is at C and if we're bringing in the other Strome and Chytil, keeping Ryan doesn't make sense. Tuch's also a NY native and Quinn seems to like big aggressive forecheckers like him.

9 avr. 2020 à 10 h 5

Sagecoll

Démarrer sujet

Rejoint: mai 2017

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Quoting: NYR_Mike

If the deal seems tilted in NYR favor, feel free to adjust those picks til it seems right.

9 avr. 2020 à 10 h 55

Earth

Rejoint: sept. 2018

Messages: 831

Mentions "j'aime": 717

Quoting: Torontoleafs15

Vegas would do that deal. I don't know why you would. Strome is better than Tuch.

I would not say that just yet. Strome just had the season of his career while Tuch had his worst battling injuries this season. Other than this season, Strome has really just been average. Tuch can very easily go to his former self again. 52 points in 74 games last season is right there with Strome's production this season. And Tuch played lights out in their debut year to the finals. He's a great power forward which can be kinda rare these days. Centers are valuable but with Stastny, Karlsson and Glass, does Vegas really have the need? Value wise, I think the trade is fair.

9 avr. 2020 à 11 h 2

Sagecoll

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Quoting: TheJonSnow

Read the description...but yeah Strome > Tuch.

9 avr. 2020 à 11 h 33

Earth

Rejoint: sept. 2018

Messages: 831

Mentions "j'aime": 717

Quoting: Sagecoll

Read the description...but yeah Strome > Tuch.

Strome has had one good season. And that is 100% because of Panarin. Panarin has a point on 32 of Strome's 59. So yeah I will be that guy to scream that in the background. Strome is an average player who will produce when put with incredible linemates, as anybody would. You are literally only taking this season for Strome into consideration but not all these past years where he was simply average. Also, you state Strome isn't a product of Panarin but are quick to call out Tuch playing with patches and Statsny. All these previous years without Panarin, Strome was no where near this type of player.

I can change your "And Tuch's big season last year featured him next to Pacioretty and Stastny" to "And Strome's big season this year featured him next to Panarin".

but yeah Tuch > Strome

9 avr. 2020 à 11 h 36

sh51_aa

Rejoint: juin 2019

Messages: 518

Mentions "j'aime": 144

First of all: Subban likely wouldn't be our CBO.

2nd: 2 bottom-6 players (from which one of them is clearly overpaid) and a 2nd for Trouba? Immediately.. Are you sure you are a Rangers fan?

9 avr. 2020 à 12 h 16

Sagecoll

Démarrer sujet

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Quoting: TheJonSnow

They're pretty similar players. Though I'd change the narrative just a touch.... Strome certainly struggled in his time in Edmonton, after all he had to drag along a 4th liner in Jujhar Khaira and Jesse Puljujarvi back when he couldn't stick in the NHL. He still put up 35 points then without much PP time. Then he came to New York and had a 43 point pace while dragging around Jimmy Vesey.

This year was Strome's 1st in a while in which he's had solid linemates. And look how he did. But he's always played this way when he's had solid linemates.

I mean here's Strome's 1st 3 full seasons with the Islanders where he had solid linemates like Brock Nelson and Anders Lee.

and here's Strome this year:

I mean...

Strome and Tuch are both 35-40ish point players on the 3rd line. The difference is that with play driving linemates Strome's peak is higher...and Vegas has the opportunity to play Strome in a position to achieve his peak and Tuch does not.

9 avr. 2020 à 12 h 27

#10

Sagecoll

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Quoting: sh51_aa

First of all: Subban likely wouldn't be our CBO.

2nd: 2 bottom-6 players (from which one of them is clearly overpaid) and a 2nd for Trouba? Immediately.. Are you sure you are a Rangers fan?

tbh I think it's close between Subban and Schneider.

Between Lehner, Khudobin, Holtby, Crawford, Halak, Greiss, Markstrom (the only UFA goalies that would be an upgrade over Schneider). It's tough to envision ANY of them going to Jersey.

Also...Rangers are saving about 5 mil on this deal. We know from the Marleau deal that ~6mil in cap space= 1st rounder. So it's around there. I like Joey Anderson a lot. He seems like a player The Rangers would be into. And Wood is about 1 mil overpaid and does what Brendan Lemieux does but maybe slightly better...

The point of trading Trouba immediately is his NMC kicking in. If the Rangers don't deal him now, they can't trade him again until he's 30..

9 avr. 2020 à 12 h 48

#11

Earth

Rejoint: sept. 2018

Messages: 831

Mentions "j'aime": 717

Quoting: Sagecoll

They're pretty similar players. Though I'd change the narrative just a touch.... Strome certainly struggled in his time in Edmonton, after all he had to drag along a 4th liner in Jujhar Khaira and Jesse Puljujarvi back when he couldn't stick in the NHL. He still put up 35 points then without much PP time. Then he came to New York and had a 43 point pace while dragging around Jimmy Vesey.

This year was Strome's 1st in a while in which he's had solid linemates. And look how he did. But he's always played this way when he's had solid linemates.

I mean...

Strome and Tuch are both 35-40ish point players on the 3rd line. The difference is that with play driving linemates Strome's peak is higher...and Vegas has the opportunity to play Strome in a position to achieve his peak and Tuch does not.

I agree, they are both in that point range on the 3rd line. I will also agree Strome probably has a higher ceiling with driving linemates. It's hard to tell considering that driving linemate was Panarin for Strome's sample. I have watched a lot of Tuch. I would not count him out from being a great player just because of this season. Although, I don't get why you'd break up Strome and Panarin like that if it worked.

9 avr. 2020 à 13 h 8

#12

Sagecoll

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Quoting: TheJonSnow

It really comes down to length of team control, Rangers don't really want to commit to Strome for 5+ years and they probably don't see it as worth it to sign him for 2-3 just to lose him as an UFA. His brother is younger and has more team control, allows them to get a similar player that's cheaper younger and has more team control. Same with Tuch.

Rangers cup window starts roughly after *next* year. And they're trying to lock in their core now. So they don't really want to ink anyone to a long term deal that could drop down the lineup in a couple years.

I don't think Tuch is bad after last year. I think he was hurt. But I'd say his ceiling is closer to that of Chris Kreider than Gabe Landeskog. Still great! And as a 2way winger he's a great middle 6 guy. His passing just isn't there to get to that next level.

Earth a aimé ceci.

9 avr. 2020 à 13 h 55

#13

sh51_aa

Rejoint: juin 2019

Messages: 518

Mentions "j'aime": 144

Quoting: Sagecoll

tbh I think it's close between Subban and Schneider.

It's not close... even if both players are far away from what we're paying them.

Quoting: Sagecoll

Between Lehner, Khudobin, Holtby, Crawford, Halak, Greiss, Markstrom (the only UFA goalies that would be an upgrade over Schneider). It's tough to envision ANY of them going to Jersey.

Schneider has some of the worst numbers over the last 3 seasons of all NHL goalies. There are multiple better goalies than him right now.

I agree with you that we're definitely not the most attractive destination for UFA's right now. We'd probably have to pull of a trade in this scenario.

Quoting: Sagecoll

Also...Rangers are saving about 5 mil on this deal. We know from the Marleau deal that ~6mil in cap space= 1st rounder.

This is a whole other story. Here you'd get some of the best years from a player while in the Marleau trade the Canes got nothing but dead money.

Quoting: Sagecoll

The point of trading Trouba immediately is his NMC kicking in. If the Rangers don't deal him now, they can't trade him again until he's 30..

Trouba has a 8 mil signing bonus on July 1 - no chance the Devils (and a lot of other teams as well) take him before that.

9 avr. 2020 à 14 h 20

#14

Sagecoll

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Quoting: sh51_aa

It's not close... even if both players are far away from what we're paying them.

Schneider has some of the worst numbers over the last 3 seasons of all NHL goalies. There are multiple better goalies than him right now.

Right, I listed the ones that are better and available. But no guys like Louie Domingue are not better. And giving Schneider's hips time to heal and a reduced role going forward is going to help his chances at succeeding a ton.

I agree with you that we're definitely not the most attractive destination for UFA's right now. We'd probably have to pull of a trade in this scenario.

Right, that's kinda the difficulty of the situation. Devils don't want to deal prospects or picks while they're rebuilding and if they believe Blackwood is a #1 then it's a wash anyway. Devils are 2 years out from being competitive anyway. Might as well just draft Asakarov, let Schneider tutor Blackwood while you guys build up your core, rather than pay for a short term bandaid that won't mean much.

This is a whole other story. Here you'd get some of the best years from a player while in the Marleau trade the Canes got nothing but dead money.

Actually it's a little different, Rangers have 5 significant RFA contracts to deal with next year. They'd most likely like to get Buch and Shestyerkin signed long term and potentially Chytil as well. They're dealing from their RHD depth (which is overflowing) to invest in their top 6 and their #1 goalie...it's just about changing how to allocate resources.

Trouba has a 8 mil signing bonus on July 1 - no chance the Devils (and a lot of other teams as well) take him before that.

....so they're going to pay Subban's 6mil bonus instead? But seriously... regardless of who Jersey CBO's, they're going to end up with under 50 mil in cap. And a cap minimum around 65 mil. They're not going to commit 15 mil to Bratt, Blackwood and Mueller. Not even close. And with players most likely not wanting to go there, the Devils will either have to a) severely overpay or b) start trading their young assets/picks. They probably don't want to do much of either. Thus, It actually makes a ton of sense to take on Trouba's contract if only just to hit the cap floor, but also to drastically improve the roster

9 avr. 2020 à 17 h 1

#15

sh51_aa

Rejoint: juin 2019

Messages: 518

Mentions "j'aime": 144

Quoting: Sagecoll

Right, I listed the ones that are better and available. But no guys like Louie Domingue are not better. And giving Schneider's hips time to heal and a reduced role going forward is going to help his chances at succeeding a ton.

Have you seen him play recently? He was reportedly 100% healthy after the 18/19 season but cruched us again big time this year. It's not like I don't cheer for this guy to succeed, in fact I really do, but his time with the Devils should be over, no doubt.

And yeah Domingue definitely wasn't a solution to anything but you can't really expect something bether from an inseason aquisition.

Quoting: Sagecoll

Actually it's a little different, Rangers have 5 significant RFA contracts to deal with next year. They'd most likely like to get Buch and Shestyerkin signed long term and potentially Chytil as well. They're dealing from their RHD depth (which is overflowing) to invest in their top 6 and their #1 goalie...it's just about changing how to allocate resources.

Why are you telling me that? As a Devils fan (or if I was the GM) the Ranger's personnel management and their cap situation is probably the last thing I'm worried about. I (we) have enough problems on my own.

Quoting: Sagecoll

....so they're going to pay Subban's 6mil bonus instead?

Yeah.. because that's what the organization agreed to when we traded him.

Quoting: Sagecoll

But seriously... regardless of who Jersey CBO's, they're going to end up with under 50 mil in cap. And a cap minimum around 65 mil. They're not going to commit 15 mil to Bratt, Blackwood and Mueller. Not even close. And with players most likely not wanting to go there, the Devils will either have to a) severely overpay or b) start trading their young assets/picks. They probably don't want to do much of either. Thus, It actually makes a ton of sense to take on Trouba's contract if only just to hit the cap floor, but also to drastically improve the roster

I don't know where you took math classes but according to this site Devils have arleady spent 55 Mil in 13 players for next season. So ur telling me that we don't have to pay 10 mil to Bratt / Blackwood and 8 (9 if there's a CBO) other roster players? Great.. That's phenominal!! YOu should definitely be our next GM

9 avr. 2020 à 17 h 53

#16

Sagecoll

Démarrer sujet

Rejoint: mai 2017

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Quoting: sh51_aa

Feel free to correct me where I'm wrong. Let's assume the Devils buy out Schneider.

Devils have 8 F's signed. Collectively those are worth 29 mil. We can presume that at least 2 of Boqvist, Merkley, Kuokkanen, Hayden and Anderson will break camp with the team more likely 3. That puts it at 11 F's signed at 32 mil

Devils have 4 D signed. Collectively those are worth 18.5 mil. We can presume that Ty Smith will be up. So that puts it at 5 D signed at 19.5 mil

So Devils at that point are at 51.5 mil with 16 players signed.

Let's go with EW's estimates because they're the most accurate

They have Jesper Bratt at 3 x 3.25 mil.

That's 53.25 for 17 players.

They have Mirco Mueller at 1 year 1.5 mil

That's 54.75 for 18 players

Mackenzie Blackwood at 3 x 3

That's 57.75 for 19 players.

So they have to spend ~ 2.5 mil between a backup goalie and extra skater just to hit the minimum. It's close. They're brushing up against the floor.

10 avr. 2020 à 4 h 12

#17

sh51_aa

Rejoint: juin 2019

Messages: 518

Mentions "j'aime": 144

Quoting: Sagecoll

So Devils at that point are at 51.5 mil with 16 players signed.

Let's go with EW's estimates because they're the most accurate

They have Jesper Bratt at 3 x 3.25 mil.

That's 53.25 for 17 players.

They have Mirco Mueller at 1 year 1.5 mil

That's 54.75 for 18 players

Mackenzie Blackwood at 3 x 3

That's 57.75 for 19 players.

So they have to spend ~ 2.5 mil between a backup goalie and extra skater just to hit the minimum. It's close. They're brushing up against the floor.

51.5 + 3.25 (Bratt) = 54.75 (not 53.25 like you calculated...)

54.75 + 1.5 (Mueller) + 3 (Blackwood) = 59.25

So.. We're already there more or less with only 19 players on the roster. And we haven't even started to talk about the ~ 2 mil of dead money from Cammalieri and Kovalchuk.

You can turn it anyway you want but the problems you're creating are just not there for the Devils. We won't have to overpay (for cap reasons) for anybody.

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