need a guaranteed 1st

Fetid .

JT Miller for a conditionnal 3rd and Juulsen

I question whether you have looked at our trade surplus. Vancouver is totally unwilling to give up what you have asked for, unless you REALLY make it worth our while. I don’t think you have...

We could live with what you’re sending us but not in this deal. Your deal is so woefully insufficient when I consider value for what you’re asking for in return.

Remember the last time a team traded a guaranteed first for Tatar? He sucked in Vegas, but the Golden Knights got lucky and made the Stanley Cup Finals. I’m not taking that same risk for him.

He did fits in Vegas doesn’t mean and doesn’t fit anywhere. The asking price will be a guaranteed first + the team who’ll overpaid ( might be a 2nd or prospect )

Then you just won't get him because this offer is very underwhelming.

then trade your 1st and a B prospect for Kreider who is far less productive

The Vegas debacle had an important element to it: it was his first time ever being traded. He thought he was a Red Wing for life. He was also coming into a team that had gelled unexpectedly in its first year of operations. It was a tough team to crack. While it's reasonable for buyers to beware in his case, that can be accommodated by adding future considerations that rebalance the trade -- if necessary -- in a coupke of years.

It fits the Habs needs as Romanov is coming in pretty soon, and Juolevi would be behind him on the left defense chart. We certainly don’t need an injury prone defenseman, but he has shown signs of promise and glimpses. I’d rather he play elsewhere than Vancouver.

Yeah, like Kreider is going to waive his clause to go to a Canadian team.

The point is that MTL require at least a guaranteed 1st to move Tatar. If VAN don't want to provide it then some other team will.

Juolevi would be an interesting add for MTL but more in a change of scenery type trade, not as the centerpiece of a Tatar trade IMO.

How about Tatar for Juolevi, Baertschi, a 2020 second and a 2021 first (which transfers to 2022 if the Canucks miss the playoffs in 2021)?

Yeah that's definitely a much better offer that MTL would strongly consider. Maybe a team able to offer a 2020 1st could win out but this is definitely an acceptable offer.

There's just so much uncertainty with Juolevi that i'm nervous taking him in this offer. If he was at least playing in the NHL on the bottom pair in sheltered minutes even, we could at least get to see the potential against NHL opposition. I don't think he's a bust yet but I'm not entirely sure he'll be a stud yet either. If I'm MTL I'd try to look elsewhere first.