no thanks for mtl. we're retooling. if hickey was like 22, sure

If MTL makes the playoff, deal!!
else, no, the pick should be TOP 15

Hickey? To move up in the draft by more than 30 spots? From approx 15-20th to nearly 60th? Are you nuts?

"Habs fans will probably balk at this trade" - You gosh darn right we will.............. That makes no sense. The only box he checks is that he is a LHD. WOWWWWW!!!

Teams don't trade down in the draft for types of players they can easily get in free agency. What Hickey gives is something any team can get very easily. Maybe if he were having his best statistical season you could convince someone but he has no goals and 4 assists all year............... come on man, 1st round picks don't grow on trees. If you move one, it better be for a great player. Hickey is nothing great in the slightest.

You're right MTL's biggest need is a top 4 lhd who can move the puck. However we really would need one who is younger given we aren't realisticly expecting to do much damage come playoff time.

With Hickey being 30 already it seems risky to bet on him being a top 4 d for the next 2-4 years when we hope to make more of a push. Also we already have Weber, Petry and Benn over 30 on defence.

That being said the price seems high but not unfair given his contract so kudos on that

Idk i mean a player can be effective without putting up many points (Mete). If he can move the puck well and get us more time on offence moving down a few spots isn't the end of the world.

Granted i am assuming that Hickey is such a pmd.

Aho could be a replacement in the Deal. 23, more creative offensively, but much more of a liability in his own zone

A. offensive contributions from Defensemen are not solely reliant on points. starting the play out of the defensive zone is a key aspect of how D drive offense and as such Zone exit tracking has become a very popular metric inside NHL front offices. if you're getting hung up on Point production in a year where everyone on the Isles is adjusting to a new, defense oriented system, you're missing the forest for the trees.

B. Puck moving defensemen do not grow on trees either. and you can get one in UFA? who. the one's available next year are Jake Gardiner and Eric Karlsson. JG is easily 6-7 AAV and EK is closer to 9-10 AAV. you could go the stralman route but h's a RH and would be more than Hickey AAV.

C. You clearly do not pay attention to the Defenseman trade market. Hamonic: a 1st and 2 2nds. probably the most comparable to hickey. worth more because he's a bigger body and a little bit better of a shot. Nick Hjalmersson is slow as sh.it and has very little offense to his game but he went for a guy who went 20th overall and a guy who went 39th overall-at the time he had 2 yrs left on his deal. getting guys who are proven reliable D men in the league is tough. D prospects take a long time to develop and are often more likely to bust than not. this is a guy who has a proven track record of very good defensive zone awareness and puck moving ability signed for 4 years at a very low cap hit and no movement restrictions.


now all that being said, if montreal has a guy on their board that is falling to them at their projected spot which is like 20-22, then they aren't going to trade that pick. but if they don't see a player they really want, they can easily move that pick for defensive help and trade back up the ladder, as they would have (after this trade) 3 second round picks

Lol. Big ol' no from the Avs.

A) So we're not getting a point producing offensive dman, we're getting a zone exits dman? Puh leeze. You don't trade 1sts for middling players. Hickey is a bottom pairing player on the Isles, why would he be anything other than that with the Habs? I hear a lot of excuses for a guy YOU are trying to trade to the Habs. Don't piss on my head and tell me its raining. He doesn't solve any of our problems. His value is at an all time low this year. Habs are a retooling team that isn't going all in, especially on Hickey so there is no reason to trade any 1sts. So why are we making this trade? Answer because some Isles fan wants to try and get another 1st out of someone. Not a chance.

B) Puck moving dman of those guys skill level, no. There is but Gardiner, Karlsson maybe a few others could be considered. That of Hickey's skill level? Your telling me Edler, Myers, Kronwall, Stralman, heck even Bouwmeester couldn't get the job done without losing a 1st? Once again, Puh leeze..... Hickey does not provide any added value over those guys to warrant moving that far up into the 1st round for. So what if they are older, my team doesn't lose a 1st in the process. Habs have tons of cap space, overpaying slightly isn't problem. Trading a 1st for a non solution is however.

C) You clearly are blinded by 1 hit wonders and bad Gm'ing. Guess the going market for Adam Larsson type defenceman is an MVP winger who was selected 1st overall in his draft year? Bad trades happen all the time, Calgary (Just like Ottawa did with Duchene) paid for Hamonic dearly and got burned. Don't try and pawn your infinite wisdom upon the masses by using bad trades that almost every person in the hockey world knows was a bad trade. If you use these trades as the going rates of market value, I think you are the one whose missing the forest for the trees.

Montreal doesn't need a player like Hickey. They have cheaper alternatives already providing what Hickey does but didn't cost the Habs what you are alluding to and even if they are by all accounts, not quite as good as Hickey, they certainly are not so low below Hickey that the upgrade would send the Habs through the roof. You know what may though? Drafting a player in the 20-22 range like Vancouver did in 2015. Yeah it doesn't always work out that way but neither does middling dman thrust into roles that are above them.

Plus you're trying to extrapolate upwards. That's not how it works. Teams don't move from a 1st to a 2nd just land a bottom pairing dman with mediocre top 4 ability. If very approximate price of moving into the late 1st round is two 2nd rounders, I would rather pay the 2nd alone for Hickey than to trade my 1st for Hickey and 2nd.

Teams would rather trade the 1st outright and get the ACTUAL top 4 dman whose not just good at existing the puck but also provides offense in the offensive zone. See Muzzin trade. See McDonagh trade. Where you get into trouble is when you pay to acquire players a like Hamonic, Larsson, etc dearly when there were just as good to slightly worse options available for fractions of the price.

I have no idea what the Avs are looking for but I can totally see them using that Second 1st rounder as a chip and moving down the ladder. I would imagine secondary offense? maybe a big defensive D?

Hickey plays top 4 minutes on the Islanders.

you're equating trades that are not comparable.

Jake Muzzin went for a very good D prospect (low 2nd round pick), a Forward prospect on the cusp of being an NHLer (low second round pick) and a low first round pick.

Ryan Mcdonough went for a 1st, a conditional 2nd that can become a 1st, a Defense prospect (high 2nd round pick) an RFA NHL middle 6 forward (former 1st round pick), and blue chip center prospect. Yes JT miller was a part of that trade, but the majority of that value comes back from Mcdonough.

you're comparing trading a bottom end 4/ higher end 5 spot defenseman and 2nd round pick for a 1st round pick to trading a bonifide top pairing D for a sh.it ton more assets. idiotic to say the least.

If you don't see the value for MTL in adding hickey on a 3 year 2.5 AAV deal that's fine; like I said to another person in this thread could easily replace Hickey with Aho. younger, more offensively creative, about equal in puck moving ability but much more of a liability in his own end than hickey. But I am for sure not extrapolating upward, I'm following a consistent trend in the NHL on the trade value of similar players.

not worth a 1st rd pick bud.

pretty sure mtl could be better off trading a 1st for fowler then to acquire hickey.

fair enough but lets play hypothetical situation GM game

Montreal doesn't see a player at their spot that they want and they are looking to trade back,
What from the Isles could Montreal want: Hickey, Pelech, Mayfield, Aho, Dal Colle, Ho-Sang, Beauvillier, Wotherspoon, Vande Somple, Bailey are all on the table.

it would take a lot more than that first to get: Bellows, Koivula or Leddy.

untouchable is: Dobson, Wilde, Whalstrom, Barzal, Toews, Pulock

I am assuming they make the playoffs and out in the first round. they would still place lower in the draft than most of the lower seed Western Conf teams bc of record, so I am assuming 20-22 range for their pick

maybe hickey, but nothing more then a 3rd rd pick and maye hudon

Mike Reilly and David Schlemko were playing top 4 minutes with Montreal, do they all of a sudden have the same value??? Who cares if he is a top 4 on the Isles. (a 19 min one..... with almost no offense to show for it). That type of player needs to be having a good year for him to get that kind of return. He is not. He's coming off a concussion, is........OMFG 30 years old!!!!! I thought he was maybe 26. He's effing 30 years old! Nah man. You can keep him.

I'm equating trades yes, because you are making a trade in this scenario. Why is that a complication?

Muzzin and Mcdonagh are far better players, I'm not disputing that. I'm simply stating that it would be wiser to go and get the high end player if that 1st is going to be included than trading it for Hickey who is not even a top 4 on most teams. The only thing idiotic here is your own belief in the kool-aid your drinking. I never said McDonagh was comparable to Hickey. Read!

The only consistency you are following is the same one that got Hamonic traded for the same value as Dougie Hamilton for effing sakes. Bravo!!

The only chance a 1st gets included in any deal with Hickey being included is if NYI include their own 1st as well. Otherwise, as many GM's are starting to realize, you don't trade a 1st for middling players. Not to mention a 30 year old marginal top 4 whose having a career worst year, just came back from a concussion, had career highs of 25 points, etc etc etc etc etc etc.

If they don't see a player they like and decide to trade back, it'll be for multiple lesser picks. You know like just about what every other team does at the draft if they choose to trade down. They'll trade that 1st for two seconds. But lets be honest here, Habs won't have one player within the 20-35 range worth selecting? Come on now, your hypothetical situation is really reaching....

No way. That’s low ball AF. Could go 2nd and 4th but not a 3rd and a throw away 4th liner

yeah sorry. he's not even a top 4 anymore. thats all you'll get

Well that was part of my point, they take that CGY pick and a solid NHLer, and then trade 2 of their 3 second round picks to move up to the top 5/6 of the second round.

That still involves Habs having to trade up...... Just to get Thomas Hickey......

I think your closer on your actual evaluation of him. A 2nd and a 4th. That's the high end though. That's doesn't mean you could extrapolate up and say well if he's worth a 2nd and a 4th, if I add another 2nd I can get a 1st out of everything. Not too mention that the pick you are including with him is Calgary's. Damn near 60th overall......We're not talking about 35-40th here.

Two potentially top-10 draft picks sounds a lot like secondary scoring to me...and Joe's said that he's not moving any draft picks this year. As for the defense, I think Barrie will be moved for something and Makar and Timmins will likely both be with the team next year. Ian Cole is our big defensive d-man and he's done pretty damn well.

at least 1 top 5 pick for sure, but outside of top 5 draft picks it is extremely rare that Draftees go right into the show year 1 or even year 2. so if they want immediate 2ndary scoring outside of the top 5 pick they aren't getting it from the draft; and even then, if by some act of god Avs don't get the number 1 overall, there is no guarantee that Kaako, Cozens or whoever are going right in to the NHL.