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VanillaIce

VanillaIce
Membre depuis
3 juin 2016
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Penguins de Pittsburgh
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Panthers de la Floride
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Forum: Armchair-GM3 juill. 2019 à 7 h 13
Sujet: This just seems so sensible but wont happen
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>pharrow</b></div><div>You keep saying detroit has 3 young defensive prospects. They don't. They have 1 who can play this year, and probably next as well.
They also have a blue line that is made of glass. I don't care what your "plan" is, when you need bodies of NHL caliber there isn't anything to choose from.
On top of it, you keep saying this is a long term contract. But as I clearly stated above it's not. It's a 2 year deal, this year included, max.

As I have said over and over, it will not be that hard to move him. You are just hell bent on your thinking this is difficult to move. hell Phaneuf got moved last year.
There are plenty of defense men worse than JJ still playing. You realize he played fairly decently on his natural side.

And why would anyone want to give up an extra 1st to seattle after giving a 1st to move him. That's just stupid.

At most JJ is a low round pick to move. At best they get a low round pick back for him.</div></div>

You're hilarious. Let me simplify:

Steve Yzerman: We aren't taking on long term contracts
Me: The LD depth chart is 5 deep this year already (DeKeyser, Ericsson, Nemeth, Cholowski, Hicketts) and they don't want long term contracts because they also have McIsaac on the way.
You: They have no LD depth and will trade for long term contracts.

I think I've figured out whats going on here... you're Jack Johnson in disguise aren't you?
Forum: Armchair-GM3 juill. 2019 à 2 h 3
Sujet: This just seems so sensible but wont happen
Sorry, you missed the key point about Detroit. Steve Yzerman: “We really weren’t in the market for the long-term contracts,” and “I thought the shorter-term deals make the most sense for us at this stage.” Yes Nemeth isn't great, yes Cholowski and Hicketts will have to play quite a bit (that is what they want of course), and no they don't want JJ on a 4 year contract when they have 3 young LD to develop. I'm not sure how you're even arguing this with a straight face.

<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>pharrow</b></div><div> You seem to be hell bent on thinking it's like trading Marlaue or something. It's not.</div></div>

We do agree on this. It's not like trading Marleau, it's actually harder. Marleau is a better player and with only 1 year left was easily bought out by a team with some cap space. Buy out JJ and you're on the hook for 7 years.

Also, I think your 'D is at a premium' argument is a bit old fashioned. There are a lot of fringe NHL blueliners around these days who perform comparably with higher priced bottom pair players. The teams who've prioritised deep blue lines, like Nashville and San Jose, have been getting beaten by teams like Pittsburgh and Washington. It's not quite as black-and-white as that, but there has certainly been a big shift in how teams build bluelines and JJ is a prime example of how it used to be done. Thats why I'm OK with Pittsburgh playing Dumo, Pettersson and Riikola. Its likely there would be an upgrade needed during the season, especially if there was an injury, but its still an upgrade on playing JJ.

Answer one question for me though, I can't figure out what your take is on JJ. Are you arguing Pit should keep him? Or bury him in the AHL and get rid of him in the expansion draft? If the latter, Pit would still have to throw in a 1st or 2nd for Seattle to take him, so why not just do it now and have the extra cap space?!
Forum: Armchair-GM3 juill. 2019 à 0 h 26
Sujet: This just seems so sensible but wont happen
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>pharrow</b></div><div>I hate to break it to you but that list sucks. Period. Gardiner is the best guy on it, and you are looking at over 6 million. No one is going to pay that for a bottom pairing guy.
You see to think defense men grow on trees. They don't the market is slim. It's always been that way. It's why people get signed to large deals and people go, it's so bad. But the alternative is usually worse. How do you think Alzner got 4.6 million. There are teams out here right now that their blue line sucks. Go look at Detroit's aging injury prone blue line and tell me JJ doesn't slot in there to be a healthy body. Because we all know he does. Just like he could play on ANA, MTL needs LD help. There are places for him to play.
He's not as horrible as you make him out to be. Just a look at that list and you'll see JJ actually hits people which is more than you can say for that list.
He's a better option than most of that list. Period. And because there is such demand for blue liners, he can find a home.</div></div>

Well, we're all speculating here so you might be right of course... but I doubt it for these reasons:
1) JJ really is that bad. He has puck skill and can hit granted, and that is why JR took a punt on him being a Daley-like reclamation project, but he simply can't hold the blueline and is a massive liability. Riikola and Ruhwedel were similarly ineffective and are paid nothing.
2) Of course I agree that list is bad, but most of those players will be signed on low cost short term contracts (I'm not sure why Gardiner is on there, he's a whole different thing).
3) Detroit is a terrible example but also illustrates why what you are suggesting is unlikely. Yzerman has said their focus is on younger players so they have no interest in long term contracts. Hence signing Nemeth for 2 years only. Their LD is below average but capable, and they want Cholowki, Hicketts and McIsaac to play as injury backups and grow into those roles. They also know that Cholowski is already more effective than somebody like JJ. So, the only way you get them to use their cap space on JJ is, wait for it, sending them the 1st. Even then, I bet they wouldn't do it.

Why are you so stuck on the 1st pick? Or is it that you think the Pens should keep JJ?
Forum: Armchair-GM2 juill. 2019 à 23 h 34
Sujet: This just seems so sensible but wont happen
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>pharrow</b></div><div>people who have no idea what they are talking about are trading JJ with a 1st. Period.
You go look at the free agent pool for LD.
</div></div>

What nonsense, It sounds like your thinking hasn't quite caught up to the salary cap era. JJ is right at the bottom of that list by most metrics anyway, but more importantly has a ridiculous cost of 3.25 for the next four years. Its about the contract more than the player, and there are more-or-less three ways you trade that contract:
1) Take a bad contract back - this shouldn't be an option for Pit as they're a cap team with a limited cup window.
2) Include a sweetener, most likely for a rebuilding team who won't mind JJ's cap hit. In Pit's case this should be a draft pick not a roster player. Low first round picks are low % on being an NHL player at all so there is about a 2/3 chance you're not even giving anything up here.
3) Pray until somebody panics/goes crazy and offers something for him. Although this does happen, its very rare and certainly can't be relied on as a team building strategy. Besides, JJ is close to untouchable - he is literally one of the worst D-men in the league.
Forum: Armchair-GM2 juill. 2019 à 22 h 31
Sujet: This just seems so sensible but wont happen
I think the prospect cupboard being bare is a little bit of a myth... Certainly there are no high percentage prospects, but there are a few (Addison, Poulin, Joseph) that have high end potential. There are also a lot of solid lower ceiling prospects in the system (Blueger, Johnson, Bjorkqvist, Hallander, Legare, Angello, Pavlychev, Lafferty etc). Its certainly not flashy, but its a solid group and should keep a steady flow of cheap lower lines players joining the team (which was a big part of how we won the last two cups).

However you do have an argument. Should the team model itself after a team like San Jose, keep 1sts, and try to keep the window open indefinitely by bringing in new stars, or should they go the old boom-and-bust route and try to win again in the next 3-4 years and then go full Los Angeles and try to rebuild. I think the team is going down the latter path which is why I think getting JJ off the team should be the top priority, but there are a lot of signs this offseason that our GM is switching plans by getting younger.
Forum: Armchair-GM2 juill. 2019 à 22 h 30
Sujet: This just seems so sensible but wont happen
I think the prospect cupboard being bare is a little bit of a myth... Certainly there are no high percentage prospects, but there are a few (Addison, Poulin, Joseph) that have high end potential. There are also a lot of solid lower ceiling prospects in the system (Blueger, Johnson, Bjorkqvist, Hallander, Legare, Angello, Pavlychev, Lafferty etc). Its certainly not flashy, but its a solid group and should keep a steady flow of cheap lower lines players joining the team (which was a big part of how we won the last two cups). However you do have an argument. Should the team model itself after a team like San Jose, keep 1sts, and try to keep the window open indefinitely by bringing in new stars, or should they go the old boom-and-bust route and try to win again in the next 3-4 years and then go full Los Angeles and try to rebuild. I think the team is going down the latter path which is why I think getting JJ off the team should be the top priority, but there are a lot of signs this offseason that our GM is switching plans by getting younger.
Forum: Armchair-GM23 juin 2018 à 20 h 22
Sujet: Balls out, all in
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>BeastModeUnknown</b></div><div>You act like Olli Maatta is a goat. And it wasn’t just 3 firsts and a good prospect. Plus the fact that Griffin Reinhart was apart of the deal means a lot. So risk does come with reward. Better than Maatta and Sheary Top 4 D and a 3rd liner that no one wants and you think Ottawa would accept that as a fair deal. Think again. Long Thought on that one is needed. Ottawa is not ablidged to Trade Erik Karlsson anyway so why on earth would they take a dumbass trade when they can just wait to get a better offer somewhere else???</div></div>

Lol, Maatta is experienced and only 23, getting better each year and starting to show his offensive skill too. He's already a 3D on most teams and its highly likely he becomes a top pair D-man in next 2-3 years. He's no GOAT (obviously), but a really smart and solid future 2D and that carries a lot of value. So this trade would be all about Maatta, the others are riskier add-ins but theres a lot of upside in there. You seem to be missing the main point though: Karlsson is a UFA in one year and, reportedly, he won't re-sign in Ottawa. Of course they'd love to keep him but they are pretty damn close to being obliged to trade. And you might be right they could get a better deal but I doubt it'll be by much. that one-year-only thing really diminishes value. The crazy thing is they seem hellbent on diminishing this even further by including Ryan, the Sens are going to crash hard if they keep making this all about saving money. Anyway, I'm not getting super real over this: Pitt wouldn't touch this as its a total one-shot strategy, a couple of injuries next year and it'd be ruined and they'd be in a real mess beyond next season, even if they won the cup. They already have star players so improving depth is the smarter strategy, I'm just messing around.
Forum: Armchair-GM23 juin 2018 à 20 h 18
Forum: Armchair-GM23 juin 2018 à 2 h 51
Sujet: Balls out, all in
<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>littlejerryseinfeld</b></div><div>You traded more for 20 games of brassard. Poor effort</div></div>

That's ridiculous. Brassard is still under contract, so they traded for two playoff runs with him and VGK made his cap hit crazy low. You're totally over-valuing draft picks if you believe your argument, look at how few NHL players come out of most drafts. All six players I'm dealing, even Hunwick, would be first round picks, early second at latest, if you redrafted their year.


<div class="quote"><div class="quote_t">Quoting: <b>BeastModeUnknown</b></div><div>I have seen 3 first plus a 3rd liner and a good prospect. I’m pretty sure there are better offers.
I couldn’t have said it better myself.</div></div>

And you're doing the same. If Karlsson is shifted, the team he's on will be good - so you're talking 3 x late first round picks. That's equivalent to the trades I'm proposing and actually carries much less certainty you'll get NHL players - higher risk and higher reward basically.

Anyway, we're all wasting our time here. If its true the Sens are attaching the Ryan contract to Karlsson then Vegas probably is the only trade candidate.