I wouldn't do that as Philly. Cates is a nice bottom six defensive forward which playoffs teams want to have. Jokiharju won't be more than 3rd pair guy long-term on their RD depth.

I think add picks and it would get done - or maybe RyJo + something for Seeler + Cates?

He's far better than ristolainen and we would know

It really just depenps on the picks, but I think they still value Cates as a piece that they want to keep unless they can add a useful piece at another position.

Seeler isn't going to get moved for atleast another year now that he signed that extension, so he is off the table, but Johanssen could be a good add for them.

Sure, he is better than Risto but looking at it long-term Jokiharju doesn't fit on their RD. They apperently want to have Sanheim as a RD which would make the long-term RD depth chart Sanheim, Drysdale, Bonk and Jokiharju.

you don't think they'd trade Seeler for Ryan Johnson who has top 4 upside and has team control?

I'm sure they would like to do it, but Seeler just signed a deal to stay with the team and he has a NTC for the first 2 years so I doubt he waves that.

I see. didn't realize he had a NTC

I doubt seeler is waiving his NTC for the whole 2 years. Also why would you want to trade a top 4 upside guy for Seeler?

cates got a crop of selke & calder votes last year and is on the teams best line, going to take a lot more than a bottom pairing dman. any 'underperforming' people think he has is strictly due to ice time being 4 minutes lower this year compared to last (result of couturier + brink + atkinson returning and foerster playing full time)