Neither

Devils pass.

Toffoli at 50%+3rd for Ullmark

I just don’t see that as a super interesting deal as others that could be present.

The original deal is not even close to value.

I’m curious how much retention of Vanacek would you take with Holtz for Ullmark.

I didn't think it would be but if boston does want Toffoli involved he would be in place of a 1st.

Based on the alleged offer of Holtz for Markstrom with 2 mill retained, my expectation would be something like Holtz for Ullmark (2 mill retained)

Or 1st+2nd+3rd (2nd could be sent to a 3rd party who retains on Ullmark instead of boston)

Or boston sends a 2nd for another team to retain on Ullmark.

And then maybe NJD also dumps vitek to that team.

I'm happy to swap in picks or other assets for Holtz who I'd rather not move at all

Remember Markstrom makes $1m more and Ullmark is younger.

I would think the number would be closer to a million on retention for a Holtz for Ullmark deal or Boston takes Vanacek with 500k to $1m in retention.

I agree that a draft pick discussion will be more fruitful.

True but the 3rd year of retention matters. At full price that 3rd year is a negative for Markstrom, with retention it's now a positive asset.

I'd probably do with 1 mill retention depending on what the contract asks are.

But I believe Holtz was only on the table specifically because the flames asked for him.

Similar to the Meier negotiations.

Team asks for Holtz, fitzy says, you can have holtz but if you want him you get nothing else. Or you can have the package. I imagine boston would opt for the package.

I’d argue the 3rd year of Markstrom at his age is questionable as a positive asset. I like the Ullmark and 2025 3rd for a 2024 first and 2025 2nd deal you proposed elsewhere.

I’m curious if NJD would prefer the 2024 first to Holtz considering their short and long term cap considerations. With his current bonus, it impacts next year for NJD (where it wouldn’t Boston if they can keep the salary cap to handle it this year).

Believe me I agree with you 100% about it being questionable in that 3rd year. At 4 mill even then I'm on the fence, ESPECIALLY with all the goalies available in UFA that year. Ullmark, Shesterkin, Saros, Vejmelka, Hill, Georgiev, LT.

I don't know how much bonuses Holtz will qualify for, maybe 250k or something? I think the majority is due to Luke and Nemec, and obviously neither of them are going anywhere.

I think NJD would keep Holtz over the 1st unless it lands top 10 or so. But also I wouldn't just throw away the 1st without some protection.

Also I want to apologize for any disagreements we had early in the process. Turns out you were the most reasonable of everyone, and just, for very valid reasons, didn't want to put Swayman on the table at all.

Disagreements on Cap Friendly are going to happen. The first few interactions were just bluster and nothing more. There is a deal here if Sweeney decides he is willing to trade Ullmark. Still uncertain about that, though I would do it if I could parlay the pick to get Hanfin without adding Lohrei.

I’ve enjoyed the banter even the first interactions

Same, was quite fun.

If I was sweeney and hearing the wild returns being thrown around by flames fans I'd be shooting Fitzy a call today to try and get a piece lmao.

I think it’s a three team trade if it happens

To Boston: Noah Hanifin and Dan Vladar (negative contract)

To NJ: Linus Ullmark, Derek Forbort, 2025 BOS 3rd

To Calgary: 2024 NJD First (playoff and ECF protected), 2025 NJD 2nd round pick, Georgii Merkulov, and Brett Harrison (any prospect not named Poitras, Lohrei, or Lysell)

Forbort could go to Calgary if they want him as a veteran with all their losses.

I'd do that as NJD, and would be willing to retain on Hanifin for you guys if needed.

When push comes to shove, I think all three teams are better off with this deal.

Calgary gets a top 20 pick in this draft plus a second and a guy that is in the top 5 scorers in the AHL at a position of need plus clearing a definitive slot for Wolf. My guess is the secondary prospect could be one of five guys. I really like how Reid Dyck has been playing with Swift Current this year. That’s an average team that is CHL top ten and he’s carrying it after a mediocre career to date

What’s the price of Duhaime by himself? I like Middleton, but you are begging to overpay at his current salary