Vegas wants a top six C and has a winger that fits Calgary’s needs and deserves a bigger role. Not really fussed about whatever else should be added, this is to show fit. I personally think Monahan has more value (top six C > 3RW) but I don’t really care if you think otherwise, the value isn’t far off either way. See my previous post for what Calgary’s team could look like with Tuch. This is to show that Vegas can make the cap work and still have a great team. Yes they’re over but I’ll say why this isn’t a problem below.
Vegas is gonna be cap strapped regardless this summer, but they can afford to take on a little cap by swapping Tuch for Monahan and solidifying their top 6. They’ll have to let Martinez walk (honestly something that’ll have to happen anyway tbh, I imagine someone gives him 5+) and won’t really be able to bring in anyone else new above a league min deal, but that’s what happens when you have two Norris contenders, two Vezina contenders, and arguably the best top six in the league. Top line adds Monahan, bumping Stephenson. 2nd line remains the same. Their 4th line remains largely the same, with Carrier and Reaves on the flanks, but I reckon Roy slides down between them unless Nosek resigns for league min (probably gonna have to let him walk). Their 3rd line features Stephenson now, and Cody Glass should make the team full time next year. He can play 3LW with Stephenson up the middle to ease in, but he can probably handle 3C and Vegas will want him at C long term, especially as Krebs projects as more of an elite winger according to some recent reports I’ve read. The last lineup spot (3RW) I’ve given to Kolesar here, but Vegas has plenty of young guys ready to try and earn a spot. I’d bet Krebs and Elvenes get serious looks next year, and while I think Dugan is still a year out, he could push for some time too. On D they’re kinda stuck, they can’t afford to keep Martinez so their top 4 will get a little weaker, at least until the TDL where decent players become extremely affordable after double retention, but with Theo and Petro carrying they should be just fine. I’m also a big fan of Hague and Whitecloud, I think that’s a fantastic young 3rd pair, and one of em might be ready to step into the top 4 next year anyway (pushing Holden down, Theo can slide back to the left if it’s Whitecloud). They’ll probably sign a veteran 6/7 guy to a league min deal for one of the scratches.
They’ll also probably run a 22-man roster to save a little cap, but they’re only barely over with 23 here. All 3 guys I have as scratches right now are mainly to show that I think they could compete for a spot but will fall just short and wind up in the AHL. When you replace Krebs or Dugan with a league min scratch it brings them below the cap. Wouldn’t surprise me if they run a 22-man roster with a veteran F and veteran D on league min as the scratches (all 3 kids sent to the AHL), doesn’t really matter who, and this scenario puts them roughly a mil under the cap, allowing for a pretty sizable splash at the TDL, likely with a D rental. Anyway, I think this is a way for Vegas to improve their top 6 by adding a good centre, and without losing any depth as Stephenson is a perfectly capable 3rd liner on a good deal and they’ve got young guys for days that are ready to step in. Worst case scenario they can afford to pay Seattle to retain on Monahan for 2 years lol
I guess you didn’t even read until the second sentence huh. Thanks for also not explaining how a 3rd line winger with precisely one season above a 50 point pace is more valuable than a top 6 C that consistently scores 30 goals.
I guess you didn’t even read until the second sentence huh. Thanks for also not explaining how a 3rd line winger with precisely one season above a 50 point pace is more valuable than a top 6 C that consistently scores 30 goals.
Rookie season
Season scoring 50
Injured
No training camp and preseason with shortened offseason and on pace for 49 points while on the 3rd line which you didn't fail to mention
50 points isn't the deciding factor on a players value, everyone knows Tuch is a top 6 forward, vegas just has elite depth, and Stephenson has been just fine for vegas
I guess you didn’t even read until the second sentence huh. Thanks for also not explaining how a 3rd line winger with precisely one season above a 50 point pace is more valuable than a top 6 C that consistently scores 30 goals.
Tuch is a lot better than a 3rd line winger. He just plays on a stacked Vegas team. Monahan has been pretty bad for the past two seasons.
Rookie season
Season scoring 50
Injured
No training camp and preseason with shortened offseason and on pace for 49 points while on the 3rd line which you didn't fail to mention
50 points isn't the deciding factor on a players value, everyone knows Tuch is a top 6 forward, vegas just has elite depth, and Stephenson has been just fine for vegas
Monahan jumped into the league directly after the draft and had 7 straight 20 goal years. At some point the pure numbers do matter, they’re the thing needed to win after all. And yeah, he’s a top 6 forward stuck on the 3rd line, stuck in the 50 point range (also I said pace, other than his 50 point year he’s never even been on pace to hit 50pts in a full season any other year) but what’s more valuable to Vegas—a 1C or a 3RW? They can afford to use their depth to address an area of weakness.
Quoting: Isles777
Tuch is a lot better than a 3rd line winger. He just plays on a stacked Vegas team. Monahan has been pretty bad for the past two seasons.
Yeah, he’s been great in his role, which is why I want him, he could get more opportunity on Calgary. He’s at the very least a good 2RW imo, stuck being a high end 3RW in Vegas with no hope of progression. Maybe he even has higher potential than good 2RW (high end 2RW? Low end 1RW?), but we won’t know until he gets a shot. Even valuing him as a good 2RW (underlyings are great but you need to convert to show they mean something, which yes he hasn’t had the opportunity to do, but that doesn’t take much from the fact that he hasn’t done it, so I think it’s difficult to value him higher than that at this point), I think giving a low end 1C/high end 2C is a pretty reasonable offer. 19-20 was a down year for Monahan and he still scored 20 in a shortened season. This year he’s been playing through a hip injury. Not everyone has to be excellent at everything (Monahan’s weakness is obviously defense, but he did improve in that area under Sutter and would hypothetically be playing with the best defensive player in the league so), sometimes being money in the bank 20 goals and a consistent threat for 30 is good enough, that’s not easy to find, especially up the middle, top 6 centres rarely move. It addresses an area of need for Vegas in the middle in the top 6 by sacrificing strength at a much easier to fill position (several ELCs ready to step into Tuch’s role on the 3rd line soon). I think it’s a pretty solid basis for a trade. Not to mention, they’re less than a year apart in age so it’s not like Tuch has boundless amounts of upside because he’s so much younger, he’s 25 and Monahan’s 26 lol
Monahan jumped into the league directly after the draft and had 7 straight 20 goal years. At some point the pure numbers do matter, they’re the thing needed to win after all. And yeah, he’s a top 6 forward stuck on the 3rd line, stuck in the 50 point range (also I said pace, other than his 50 point year he’s never even been on pace to hit 50pts in a full season any other year) but what’s more valuable to Vegas—a 1C or a 3RW? They can afford to use their depth to address an area of weakness.
Yeah, he’s been great in his role, which is why I want him, he could get more opportunity on Calgary. He’s at the very least a good 2RW imo, stuck being a high end 3RW in Vegas with no hope of progression. Maybe he even has higher potential than good 2RW (high end 2RW? Low end 1RW?), but we won’t know until he gets a shot. Even valuing him as a good 2RW (underlyings are great but you need to convert to show they mean something, which yes he hasn’t had the opportunity to do, but that doesn’t take much from the fact that he hasn’t done it, so I think it’s difficult to value him higher than that at this point), I think giving a low end 1C/high end 2C is a pretty reasonable offer. 19-20 was a down year for Monahan and he still scored 20 in a shortened season. This year he’s been playing through a hip injury. Not everyone has to be excellent at everything (Monahan’s weakness is obviously defense, but he did improve in that area under Sutter and would hypothetically be playing with the best defensive player in the league so), sometimes being money in the bank 20 goals and a consistent threat for 30 is good enough, that’s not easy to find, especially up the middle, top 6 centres rarely move. It addresses an area of need for Vegas in the middle in the top 6 by sacrificing strength at a much easier to fill position (several ELCs ready to step into Tuch’s role on the 3rd line soon). I think it’s a pretty solid basis for a trade. Not to mention, they’re less than a year apart in age so it’s not like Tuch has boundless amounts of upside because he’s so much younger, he’s 25 and Monahan’s 26 lol
I think tuch is already an average 1LW with potential to be a star. Top 5 in GAR on VGK. Monaghan’s underlying numbers have been pretty bad the past two years, I know he’s dealt with injuries but at this point I don’t think it’s fair to call him anything more than an average 2C. I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure VGK uses analytics so I don’t think they would do this - it’s possible calgary can take advantage of a team like Ottawa or Anaheim if they want to trade monahan.
I think tuch is already an average 1LW with potential to be a star. Top 5 in GAR on VGK. Monaghan’s underlying numbers have been pretty bad the past two years, I know he’s dealt with injuries but at this point I don’t think it’s fair to call him anything more than an average 2C. I could be wrong but I’m pretty sure VGK uses analytics so I don’t think they would do this - it’s possible calgary can take advantage of a team like Ottawa or Anaheim if they want to trade monahan.
I think if Tuch was already at the level of a 1st liner he would have inevitably bumped someone down, Marchessault and Smith are good, and have good chemistry, but not good enough to prevent a 1st liner from even being on the 2nd line.
What do you think Vegas does to address their C depth then? The only other top six centres out there this summer are Eichel (if he goes to Vegas I’ll scream, legitimately how tf do they do this without ripping apart their core, again), Danault (UFA who probably demands around 5.5, meaning they’d have to trade Tuch to make room anyway), and Kuznetsov (7.8mil means they have to lose 2 of their top 8 forwards at least, or move one of the goalies, which seems like a non-option because Fleury’s been elite, but is also old and Lehner’s the future). If they really want to address this there aren’t that many options, and even fewer that are semi-realistic. Crazier things have happened than a 26yo bouncing back in a new situation, especially when said player still scores 20 goals in a down year. Having poor analytics for a year and then getting hurt shouldn’t be a death sentence if you still perform well consistently.
Pass. Tuch is our future top line winger. Sooner than later with Patches age.
How long are you gonna wait for this future? He’ll still be a 3rd liner next year. Smith has a year left but will only be 31, will they let him walk? If not, Patches still has 2 years left, so that’s another 2 years for Tuch on the 3rd line. By then you’d expect Krebs, Glass, and Elvenes to be full time players, likely pushing for top 6 roles, and both Krebs and Glass have a higher ceiling than Tuch imo, while Elvenes plays a skill game that would be better suited on the 2nd line. It’s not like Tuch is the only piece they have in the future, they’re absolutely loaded and would be fine without him. When’s this future with Tuch on the top line ever gonna realistically come, and how are they going to add a centre, like they’ve said they want to, in the meantime?
How long are you gonna wait for this future? He’ll still be a 3rd liner next year. Smith has a year left but will only be 31, will they let him walk? If not, Patches still has 2 years left, so that’s another 2 years for Tuch on the 3rd line. By then you’d expect Krebs, Glass, and Elvenes to be full time players, likely pushing for top 6 roles, and both Krebs and Glass have a higher ceiling than Tuch imo, while Elvenes plays a skill game that would be better suited on the 2nd line. It’s not like Tuch is the only piece they have in the future, they’re absolutely loaded and would be fine without him. When’s this future with Tuch on the top line ever gonna realistically come, and how are they going to add a centre, like they’ve said they want to, in the meantime?
It’s not even that, you just don’t do that kind of trade with a division rival.
All the reasons you said why would should trade Tuch is the exact reasons not to. We need to see what Glass and Krebs can actually do. We don’t have any wingers other than Tuch under 25 that we can trust
It’s not even that, you just don’t do that kind of trade with a division rival.
All the reasons you said why would should trade Tuch is the exact reasons not to. We need to see what Glass and Krebs can actually do. We don’t have any wingers other than Tuch under 25 that we can trust
I really think the first idea is just stupid in general and I’ve never understood it. If the trade makes your team better, why does it matter who you trade with? In any trade the value should be even, but address needs for each club, so if the value is even, nothing’s really changing in the relationship between these two franchises. Both see advantages for their side that fit their timeline and goals, and eliminating a quarter of the league as potential trading partners is just poor management.
As for the second part, is having Tuch on the 3rd line really the answer to that? Like, your top 6 is set for at least 2 more years. The 3rd or 4th line isn’t exactly a big step for most prospects, and Vegas has at least 5 pretty good shots over the next few years to find a Patches replacement (Krebs, Glass, Dugan, Elvenes, Brisson). I would be willing to bet at least Krebs and Glass turn out to be top 9 regulars at worst, likely top 6. And id all 3 of Dugan, Elvenes, and Brisson bust then you need a new development team, idk what to say, only the Savres have that kinda track record lol. And like, this trade doesn’t hurt that development in any way? Monahan’s less than a year older, and slotting him into the top 6 pushes Stephenson to the 3rd line. So you’re trading Stephenson at 1C and Tuch at 3RW for Monahan at 1C and Stephenson at 3C/3LW. You have the same amount of players between the kids and the top of the lineup, only got like 7 months older, and filled a position of need (and more important position than what you were giving up).
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