I agree. Though I wonder what your thoughts on Matthews even strength defensive struggles are. He’s been almost as bad as Gardiner.

Wasn't really the point of the post, was just to garner a discussion on if they should trade him or keep as an "own rental". But I do agree, Matthews indeed has defensive struggles himself, and when the goals dry up that fact always seems to get amplified. Although every player has defensive responsibilities and would be nice if Matthews was better defensively, his role on this team is not to keep the puck out of the net, but rather to drive the play to the other end of the ice where he doesn't need to worry about defense, while Gardner as a D Man, is always involved in the defensive side of the play, and when you make blunders they unfortunately really stand out.

Someone thinks Gardiner is better than Nurse....Maybe a Nylander and Gard for Nurse, Rattie and a pick

one has been in the league for 2 years and still learning the other been in for 8 and seem to be doing it on a regular basis. I don't think you can compare the two.

It's 3 and 8, but people beat up Gardiner as if it's his job to be a defensive defenseman. That's just not who he is. He's slightly below average defensively and way above average offensively. Karlsson struggles defensively at times. So does Ristolainen. And Klingberg. And Krug. You get the point. Nobody is super upset with them because they aren't on the Leafs. Hainsey, on the other hand, is only an average third pairing guy. He needs to go or be replaced. People say Hainsey and Gardiner are giveaway machines. Yet Reilly gives away more pucks then they do. He also allows far more GA/60 than any other D except for Dermott, the other most highly touted Leaf D. Basically, I think fans degrade Gardiner too much without realizing that Reilly is playing in his role now and he's being used in a way that he's never been used in before. He'd be a beast on a team like Vancouver and Montreal who have an abundance of D to grind out the hard minutes for him.

If you honestly believe that is a fair trade, then you may not be that bright. If Dubas can pull this off, I would eat my underwear but this is about as realistic as the Sens winning the cup this year.

Montreal and Vancouver can have him. Gardner give away always end in goals. Riely is playing top minutes against teams top line. Yet it’s Gardner mistakes that are noticed we can’t all be wrong.