TVR isn't even that good. i don't know why so many people want him. with these trades the pens d core would be even worse

Basically Maatta, Sheahan, and Simon for TVR and Foegele? Seems like a downgrade and a lot to give up for the sake of fixing handedness on D, and with the hot start this year and solid AHL season under his belt last year the Canes aren't moving Foegele right now.

Foegele to me has more upside and is more talented than Simon. TvR is more consistent than Maatta. Specially defensively. And Sheahan is just a bit better than Cousins, but he's a RFA and still a good bottom 6 C/LW. Oesterle is good ofensively and would give us more depth at D. So, I don't think those are bad trades at all. In fact, I think our D and offensve would improve.

I respectfuly disagree. TvR is more consistent than Maatta in his blue line. So he'd improve our D, surely. We're allowing too many shots per game. Murray won't stop all the shots every game.

PS: I know Maatta has a good upside, but I think he needs some fresh air to his improve his chance to reach his potential.

Foegele might very well be more talented than Simon, which is why I don't see Carolina trading him when the immediate roster replacement is an older and worse version of the same player.

As for TVR and Maatta, the defensive upgrade isnt as big as you think. Van Riemsdyk hasn't been a big penalty killer historically, and his even strength time isn't a while lot different than what Olli's gotten, so you're giving up the much better offensive defenseman for a slight bump in defensive play a few shifts a night at evens. And that's without considering that Carolina runs a system prediacted on creating turnovers and boosting strong defensive metrics without necessarily winning games, so as much as Maatta's offense might be a result of playing in Pittsburgh so might TVR's apparent defensive skills be exaggerated by playing in Carolina. Again, doesn't seem worth the risk.

I don't know how you're measuring them, but I can't find anything to suggest that Cousins and Sheahan are remotely close to each other in terms of skill or results. Sheahan is a passable 3rd line center, Cousins has had a replacement level career outside of a 12 goal outburst. That's a clear downgrade.

Cornering the market on waiver eligible D.

The point is that Carolina have much more depth on their wings than in their C. In fact, there's a huge hole in their C. So, bring Bjugstad as their 2nd line C would surely improve their offensive game, cause Rask becames a bust and he's far from being a good C to be placed as a 2nd C. So, I think Carolina can afford to lose one good winger to get a C.

As for Maatta and TvR, let's remember that TvR was pretty good playing for the Hawks as well. He's been consistent almost his entire career. To me, he's a underrated player.

You fill Carolina's needs quite nicely and the Pens get a full compliment of right-handed defensemen, but at what cost to Pittsburgh? The Hurricanes get (by your estimation) a 2nd line center in Bjugstad, (by my estimation) a 3rd line center in Sheahan, and a decent depth piece in Simon, and all it costs them is an "underrated" 3rd pairing defenseman, a promising prospect with a hot hand, and a pick.

The Pens are giving up a top 4 defenseman, a valuable center that lets them roll lines and play Brassard where need be, and one of the only left-handed depth options to have chemistry with Sid if something happens to Guentzel, and the only guarantee they get in return is a depth defenseman that has to play over his head until Schultz returns. Maybe Foegele is the next Guentzel, maybe he goes to Wilkes-Barre and never sees the big ice again, he's not a known quantity. Maybe TVR has been hiding another gear in his development and can become the next Dumoulin, if only he wasn't already 27. Pittsburgh loses way too much value on this deal and gets far too little in return for it to make any sense.

Bjugstad plays behind Barkov and Trocheck, 2 very good C, and he still got 49 points and 19 goals playing as a 3rd C in a team which haven't the much depth at their wings. At least till last season. So, in Carolina he'd be no-brainer their 2nd C and will have an immediate impact in their offense. Imagine he playing with Teuravainen and Svechnikov. Whatta exciting 2nd line it'd be!

As for Pens, well, I don't think Maatta is playing like a top-4 d-man in Pitt. At least not in terms of the quality of his game. However, I admit that he has a good upside and he could improve Panthers D at the same moment that he gets the lineup. That's why I think everyone would win in this trade. I still think that TvR shows he's a good D, who can play as a top-4 or 6 and help the Pens to improve the D. And finally, Foegele is an obvious improvement compared to Simon. So, Pens wins either.

PS: I know I won't change your mind. But I'm still giving my point anyway. lol

The problem you're not addressing is that the only team that wins any of these trades is the Canes. No knock on him but Maatta isn't displacing Yandle or Matheson any time soon, and there's no room for him to play down the right side, so the Panthers don't really have a pressing need for Olli. The Pens are giving up a key piece of center depth with no clear replacement (Grant and Cousins are not replacements for Sheahan), and yes Foegele is probably a long term upgrade on Simon but maybes and long terms aren't a good fit for a team with a core north of 30. The only thing that could save this from a Pens standpoint is if you were upgrading the D, which is a suspect argument at best. Maatta isn't great and he's not earning his money, but he's a good bit better and more valuable than van Riemsdyk and yet that's the main roster swap.