A lot more needs to go to Ottawa to get Karlsson, maybe even throw in Ilya Samsonov?

I know Gardner has some defensive gaffes, but there's no way Niskanen is worth two second round picks more than him, especially since he's nearly four years older.

Yea I realized I was kind of undervaluing Gardiner, but he is more of a rental so I think maybe Gardiner and 1 2nd would make more sense or Gardiner and a 3rd

I hope you're joking. This is already a severe overpayment for Karlsson. I love Karlsson but I wouldn't pay anything close to this. OTT gets a #1 dman on a great contract, a future top pairing dman, a young top 6 physical player, and 1st. Already too much, but then to throw in the best goalie prospect in the game in there? No way.

He's only 28, so why not extend him?
Isn't Gardner quite an offensive minded defenseman?
Wouldn't a rock solid defender to play with Karlsson put the team in a better position?
If Karlsson and Carlson are going to play 25 minutes a night who will they play with? Djoos only played an average of about 10 mins/game in the playoffs, Gardner isn't going to fit well with Karlsson, and probably won't compliment Carlson that we'll either. So then there is Bowey who the coaches chose to not dress for more than. 50 games last year and Kempny who averaged almost 18 minutes in the playoffs.
So then do you play Carlson and Karlsson together a lot too? Bit of a mess to me, but only an opinion.

Who is this number one dman?
Orlov's career best is 33 points. I like him, but he's a great 3 and maybe a 2 on a middle of the pack team.
Lucas Johansen wasn't even the top defenseman on his junior team nor on a BAD Bears team last year. He has a LONG ways to go before becoming a top pair guy.
Top 4 potential, maybe.
The first round pick will be almost a second round pick and only roughly 50% of players taken in that part of the draft hit as productive pros.
Karlsson is one of the top 5 defenseman in all the league, maybe top 3. To get elite franchise players a premium has to be paid. O'Reilly isn't even a franchise player and it took 5 assets to get him.

Orlov a #3? Maybe #2?! hahahha that's funny. He was Caps #1 on the way to the Cup.

Johansen will be top pairing. He has all the tools. He's about to have a great year Hershey. Hershey's dcore was the youngest in the AHL last season, which is why they were bad. But we'll see I guess.

Karlsson is THE best dman in the league. Not top 5 or top 3, but #1.

If Orlov was number one, why did two other guys play more and produce more than him?(in playoffs)
Also Toronto, Texas, and Lehigh all had a team average age less than Hershey and seemed to do ok.

Only 1 player played more 5v5 minutes than Orlov and it was Nisky and by just 5 minutes. Also only 1 defender had more 5v5 points and that was NIskanen by 1 point. But Orlov had a better Rel CF% and Rel xGF% than Niskanen. Also lack of production is from starting in his own zone 43% of the time. Coach Reirden said before the playoffs that this upcoming season will be Orlov's offensive breakout year. We'll see if it happens.

One good way to compare players is by even strength points across a season. Erik Karlsson was first among defensemen, so THE number one defenseman, but Orlov, Carlson, and Niskanen were all in the top thirty, so the Caps won with THREE number one defensemen. These trades leave them with the same number, better offense, but much, much weaker defense.

Last year the Caps' five on three penalty killers were, as the year before, or the year before that, Beagle, Orpik, and Niskanen. Reirden brought Niskanen with him from Pittsburgh, and isn't going to let you trade him for someone who doesn't play defense very well.

Niskanen led the playoffs in shots blocked. He and Orpik stayed on the ice for the last 2:22 of the season to hold a one goal lead against six attackers. The Caps didn't even take a shot. Just iced it when they got it and tried to get faceoffs. Instead of looking for what you could trade Niskanen for, why not talk about how to get Orpik back? Should he be signed as a UFA or as assistant coach?

Peter Laviolette also said Giroux was the best player in the world, and Lindy Ruff called Jochen Hecht his best player in 2006 when he was only a third line guy. Coaches get attached, as do fans about their players and prospects.

He's got three years left on his contract, and Reirden brought him over with him from Pittsburgh to teach Carlson and Alzner how to play defense. Niskanen led the playoffs in shots blocked. He was on the Caps' top penalty killing unit. He played the last 2:22 of the season. No, they aren't trading him for an offensive defenseman who doesn't play much defense and only has a year left on his contract. Two second round picks don't make a difference.



Johansen played top pair on the Bears, and led their defensemen in points. He often wasn't top left D, with Ness up and down to the NHL, but that's why if you watch highlights of him you'll see him playing on the right side.

Orlov, Niskanen, and Karlsson are among the top thirty defensemen in the league, and all of them are less injured and more defensively sound than Karlsson, and none publicly disparages their team in the newspaper by announcing that they will not give any home town discounts to stick around. They've also all won a Stanley Cup, together, and the Caps should be pretty happy bringing all three back.. To get any one of the three of them, for Karlsson, Ottawa would have to add a good, waiver-exempt prospect who shows some professionalism, and a first round pick

Using total points on Orlov or Niskanen doesn't work because Ovechkin and Carlson play every available minute of power play time with the Caps. Compare even strength points, and you'll notice that all three are number one defensemen in terms of how much offense they produce at even strength. They're all in the top thirty in the league. Detroit used to build teams around having two #1 centers and three #1 defensemen. That hasn't been done, I don't think, since the salary cap started. Washington pulled it off, and also has an elite goal scoring winger on each side, and a goalie who just won all sixteen games to earn a Stanley Cup. None of the pieces I just mentioned are available. Especially not as undervalued pieces of a larger offer for an injured superstar venting his personal issues with teammates and venting his plans to leave his team to the press.

I typed up a perfectly reasonable offer for Karlsson yesterday that included: Michal Kempny, Travis Boyd, Brett Connolly, Nate Walker, and Andre Burakovsky. It's a great offer. They should either take it, or demand that Washington include Vitek Vanecek. If you want to insult Washington's defensemen, go win your own Stanley Cup.

Not every team has a player that has the ability of a number one defender.
Each team has a guy they consider to be that, but I wouldn't consider Yandle, Barrie, or even Keith(this year) to be number one guys.
To me a number one guy is someone that is hall of fame worthy, or having a season that's on par with that, but doesn't have any major holes in his game.
Just an opinion though.
To me I'd say Niskanen and Orlov are great number three guys that play well to their strengths. There's nothing wrong with that at all. Very good players. Not hall of fame worthy.

Reirden also just got promoted to head coach, and GM Brian McLellan has publicly cited Reirden's requests as his reasons for signing Orpik, Niskanen, and Kempny. So you might not agree with coaches' estimation of their players but since Reirden has been running the Caps power play and gave Ovechkin and Carlson every available minute on the point last year, if he says Orlov is due for an offensive breakout, it probably means Orpik's dues have been paid enough that he's earned a little bit of time on a second power play unit. Whether that's with Niskanen or Bowey will be interesting. My guess is Niskanen out of seniority, but Niskanen is also going to be taking on an even heavier workload on the penalty kill now that Orpik is gone, and Bowey has some skills.

Ness actually had more points than Johansen....

If you believe that Karlsson is the best d-man in the league (which I agree with), this trade isn't anywhere close. Orlov is a #3, with great offensive skills, and Johansen is nowhere near a lock to be a top 4 guy, let alone a top pairing guy. To get top players in the league, you need to give up good assets, and the Caps aren't getting Karlsson with that trade.

Orlov is a #1. There's absolutely no argument against it. If you want be harsher and say #2 then okay, but absolutely insane to say he's a #3 haha

Don't forget this also involves a young top 6 player too. All of these guys are young, cheap, and very good.

I respect your opinion, but I don't see how you can state that there is no arguement about Orlov being a #1, when there are clearly many people arguing that he isn't a #1. These are some good players for sure, but not close to what needs to be given up for Erik Karlsson

Power play points come and go, depending on who is in favor with the coaches. Erik Karlsson's strongest argument to be a number one defenseman is his rank among defensemen in even strength points, from year to year. He's like, always in the top ten. It's uncanny. But Orlov is younger and like always in the top 25 now, so trading Orlov for Karlsson, offensively, is short sighted. You add in that Karlsson is likely to cost more than twice as much after one year, and it's a big nope. But then you look at their defensive stats. Erik Karsson started 55% of his shifts ahead of the red line but the team only got 51% of the shots while he was on the ice. Was he on with bad players? You tell me. My guess is a lot of time with Duchene and some decent wings should not have hurt him. And yes, his foot was hurt, but that percentage is only one percent worse than his career numberhttps://www.hockey-reference.com/players/k/karlser01.html

Orlov, the slightly younger, already cheaper, just as consistent offensive defenseman with the Cup ring, gets his team 4% MORE of the shots than his zone starts, as of this year. Before that he was respectably even. So he's still improving, while Karlsson is already deteriaorating to age and injury. By next year or the year after, Orlov is the better hockey player.

No. The Caps should not trade Orlov for Karlsson. Not in a one for one. Not if the Sens throw in a 2nd round pick and promise to be best friends forever. It is a bad deal. It hurts Washington defensively this year. It could mess up the Caps' locker room this year. It destroys the Caps' salary cap puzzle next year, when either Karlsson leaves and the Caps overpay for another trade for another defenseman, or when Karlsson stays and the Caps have to trade away three more good players to make enough space to keep him.

Orlov for Karlsson and a first round pick? Sure. At two seconds I hesitate.

Whether or not we agree that Orlov, Carlson, Niskanen, and Karlsson are the four number one defensemen between these teams, I don't see the Capitals throwing in anything extra in a trade where they start with three of what I consider top defensemen and end with three of them. The guys on the Caps are defensively sound, less egotistical, healthier, and better team players. None of them has ever said anything but positive things in public forums about playing in Washington.